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Originally Posted By: Geo. Newbern
That law's for the health of the people and if its worth having on the books its worth enforcing.


With a SWAT team armed with machine guns?? Maybe the Highway Patrol should get some M1 tanks to enforce the speed limit.

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The NYS DEC was all over a Syracuse Gun Show last year looking for "illegal ivory". Word got around fast and most anything with ivory on it went under the table or back out the door.
The next Collectors Assn news letter addressed the issue,, kind of,,only to the point that no one really understood the laws. Their suggestion was to leave the ivory home next show.

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Hope they never see the Ivory gear shift knob in my truck....

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Methinks there's an opportunity for deficit reduction here. Hope the "supercommittee" looks at these jobs and asks why we need them.

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It appears to be the current Justice Department that has taken it to this level...(Could it be that Gibson hasn't donated to the POTUS' re-election fund?)
Here is what appears to be a press release from someone favoring Gibson's defense: FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE
Govt says wood is illegal if U.S. workers produce it
Thursday, August 25, 2011
The Justice department bullies Gibson without filing charges
The Federal Department of Justice in Washington, D.C. has suggested that the use of wood from India that is not finished by Indian workers is illegal, not because of U.S. law, but because it is the Justice Departments interpretation of a law in India. (If the same wood from the same tree was finished by Indian workers, the material would be legal.) This action was taken without the support and consent of the government in India.
On August 24, 2011, around 8:45 a.m. CDT, agents for the federal government executed four search warrants on Gibsons facilities in Nashville and Memphis and seized several pallets of wood, electronic files and guitars. Gibson had to cease its manufacturing operations and send workers home for the day, while armed agents executed the search warrants. Gibson has fully cooperated with the execution of the search warrants.
Raid shut down Gibson factories and cost company money
This is the second time that federal agents have raided Gibson facilities and disrupted production this time causing lost productivity and sales.
Wood seized was Forest Stewardship Council Controlled
The wood the Government seized on August 24 is from a Forest Stewardship Council certified supplier and is FSC Controlled, meaning that the wood complies with the standards of the Forest Stewardship Council, which is an industry-recognized and independent, not-for-profit organization established to promote responsible management of the worlds forests. FSC Controlled Wood standards require, among other things, that the wood not be illegally harvested and not be harvested in violation of traditional and civil rights. See www.fsc.org for more information. Gibson has a long history of supporting sustainable and responsible sources of wood and has worked diligently with entities such as the Rainforest Alliance and Greenpeace to secure FSC certified supplies. The wood seized on August 24 satisfied FSC standards.
Nearly two years later, no charges have been filed
In 2009, more than a dozen agents with automatic weapons invaded the Gibson factory in Nashville. The Government seized guitars and a substantial amount of ebony fingerboard blanks from Madagascar. To date, 1 year and 9 months later, criminal charges have NOT been filed, yet the Government still holds Gibsons property. Gibson has obtained sworn statements and documents from the Madagascar government and these materials, which have been filed in federal court, show that the wood seized in 2009 was legally exported under Madagascar law and that no law has been violated. Gibson is attempting to have its property returned in a civil proceeding that is pending in federal court.
The Justice Department has asked the judge to stop the court case indefinitely.
Information sought in raid was already made available
Since 2009, Gibson has fully cooperated with the Governments investigation of wood and has provided substantial documentation regarding Gibsons wood-buying activities over the years. Yet, the Federal Government raided Gibsons facilities on August 24, 2011, without warning or communication of any kind. Had the Government simply communicated with Gibson, Gibson would have cooperated without having to stop its production and send workers home.
Not about illegal logging, not about conservation, not about the environment
The U.S. Lacey Act does not directly address conservation issues but is about obeying all laws of the countries from which wood products are procured. This law reads that you are guilty if you did not observe a law even though you had no knowledge of that law in a foreign country. The U.S. Lacey Act is only applicable when a foreign law has been violated.
Gibson is innocent and will fight to protect its rights
Gibson has complied with foreign laws and believes it is innocent of ANY wrong doing. We will fight aggressively to prove our innocence

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The thing is that the laws we are talking about have been passed for the protection of plants or animals which are in trouble because of commercial exploitation. As sportsmen it seems to me that we ought to be in favor of the enforcement of these rules. The connection to "blood diamonds" is that the poaching and illegal export of these items is often based in troubled areas of the world and the profits are supporting terrorists or other 'bad guys'.

I believe the deal on ivory is that its illegal to sell or to transport across international borders unless it is documented as pre-ban. Probably, exotic wood from endangered species or populations of trees works the same way. Same thing with furs or body parts (tiger or rhino parts and bear galls come to mind) of endangered or protected species.

Enforcement as mentioned in this thread seems to be targeting commercial violations. I don't think the highway Patrol is going to bother you about your ivory gear shift, jOe. The Feds don't like gun shows anyhow and since they are commercial in nature, I would not be surprized to see enforcement efforts directed at gun show sales of doubles with ivory beads. I guess the lesson here is that if you're selling an old gun with what you know are ivory sights or enlays you better be ready to prove the age of the gun...Geo

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Geo.... The camel's nose is now under the tent.......AND why wasn't this supposedly illegal wood found at the ports-of-entry?... Sounds like our U.S. Customs aren't doing their jobs and are taking the easy way out to raid US manufacturers....Sort of double standard when it comes to the whining and crying you hear about ICE raiding companies to pick up illegals instead of catching them at the borders...Where's all the outrage now?

Last edited by Doug Waterman; 08/26/11 09:26 PM.
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Originally Posted By: Doug Waterman
Geo.... The camel's nose is now under the tent.


'Fraid that might be an apt reference, Doug...Geo

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Originally Posted By: Geo. Newbern
I don't think the highway Patrol is going to bother you about your ivory gear shift, jOe.


I just hope they don't notice my Ivory radio knobs...

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Originally Posted By: HomelessjOe
Originally Posted By: Geo. Newbern
I don't think the highway Patrol is going to bother you about your ivory gear shift, jOe.


I just hope they don't notice my Ivory radio knobs...



jOe, could we get a picture of that truck?...Geo

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