doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com Annie Oakley's Guns

Does anyone have the stock dimensions of Annie's guns (Parkers?)
The reason I ask is that I own a gun that was allegedly used by Annie when she visited a friend here in England, shooting Game.
Now I know many gunmakers proclaimed Annie used there products because of her celebrity status.
My interest is in trying to tie in the gun with the particular estate where she visited. My gun was I believe manufactured in 1906 and it is my belief Annie was still visiting here up until 1920.
Any help with information about Annie Oakley would be greatly appreciated.

I have some stock dimensions. I will get back to you. Would you care to post the dimensions of the gun you are studying?

Annie Oakley also owned a few L.C. Smiths and right after a visit to England in 1889 her husband Frank Butler commisioned Hunter Arms to build a custom 16 ga. The unique thing about this gun is that on the lock plates there was a portrait of her engraved by Tiffany.The trigger guard has her name engraved on it This gun was/is in a private collection. She also had an Ideal Grade 12 ga. with 26" barrels that was shipped June 4, 1926. She passed away in November of that same year. This gun is in the Cody Firearms Museum.

This informaton is from "The Legend Lives" by John Houchins. I believe that the sentence "right after a visit to England in 1889, Frank Butler had Hunter Arms build a custom 16 ga." is incorrect. The 16 ga. was not out by then, and Hunter Arms was not fully operatonal until 1890. I'm guessing the date of 1889 is a typo, maybe should have been 1899.

Her 4E Ithaca single barrel trap gun was 14 1/4 lop. 1 1/2 comb, 2 1/4 at heel, 4 3/4 around grip. She also had a Ithaca SxS but I do not have anything on it.

The Art of Wingshooting William Bruce Leffingwell, 1895
http://books.google.com/books?id=e34EmE3tkfkC

"I was permitted to examine many of the fine guns used by Miss Oakley in exhibition shooting, and noticed among them one Charles Lancaster ejector, one Charles Lancaster nonejector, a Cashmore hammerless, a magnificent Smith ejector with a gold figure of herself inlaid, a Parker hammerless, a Scott Monte Carlo, a Scott ejector of highest quality, and an exquisite little Francotte ejector with Whitworth barrels. The value of the guns mentioned is $2,500. The rifles shown were Lancaster oval-bore .360 double-barrel, Holland hammerless .32-caliber double-barrel, a magnificent Marlin repeater, and a couple of handsome Winchesters. She also showed me two single-barreled pistols made by the celebrated maker, Gastinne Renette of Paris. These pistols have 14-inch barrels, and are made expressly for pigeon shooting. With them Miss Oakley has scored nine out of ten pigeons from two traps, using one-half ounce of shot. She shoots binocularly. Her shot-guns weigh about six pounds each, the right barrels being bored modified, and the left full choke. Her load for targets is 2 3/4 drams of nitro powder and one ounce of shot. For live pigeons she uses three drams of powder, but the shot charge is unchanged; an ounce of shot is used on all occasions and for all kinds of game."

An Illustrated Treatise on the Art of Shooting Charles Lancaster
http://books.google.com/books?id=O2GzwW9...ley&f=false

Miss Annie Oakley (Little Sure Shot), the celebrated American Lady Shot, who visited England in 1887 with Buffalo Bill's Wild West Show, writes :
"New York, 8th Dec, 1888. "Dear Sir,�The four breech-loading hammerless guns you built for me are, in my opinion, as near perfection as it is possible to get them. The pair of 20-bores (weight 5 lbs. 2 ozs.), I have been using now nearly two years. I find them just as tight and sound as when new; I have never had any repairs except having the locks cleaned. The pair of 12-bores (6 lbs.) are as good as the 20's.
Since using your guns, and receiving a few lessons from you at your splendid private shooting grounds, my shooting in the field has so much improved that now I always make a good score, even at fast and difficult birds. With many thanks for the pains you have taken in making me such perfect fitting and fine shooting guns.
"I am, gratefully yours,
"(Signed) Annie Oakley, "(Little Sure Shot)."
Miss Annie Oakley again visited London with Buffalo Bill's Wild West Show in 1892.

No mention of dimensions in Lancaster's book

Pics of one Lancaster and a Smith here
http://docs.google.com/a/damascusknowledge.com/View?id=dfg2hmx7_314fxrdr3gt

Thank you gents for your answers so far.
I am aware that Annie was gifted Lancaster's and corresponded with H.A.A. Thorn who was very commercially astute.
Annie also was given W C Scott's.
I have been given various measurements of guns reputed to be either Annie's or used by her and I have to say for a small lady if everything I have been told she was very adaptable.
That is why I would like a definative answer.

THIS c. 1890 Lancaster was 1 1/4" DAC X 1 7/8" DAH; unsure LOP.

This BHE was ordered by Frank Butler in 1903 and offered by James Julia auctions in 2009. Drop at heel: 2-3/8", drop at comb: 1-5/8". Weight: 7 lbs. 9 oz. LOP 14-1/4".



SN 117432. Cal. 12 ga. 24-3/4" bbls, matted tapered concave rib, dual brass sighting beads, 2-3/4" chambers, CYL/CYL chokes, ejectors and double triggers. There is no provision for a safety. The top rib of bbl is marked "Parker Bros. Makers. Meriden. Conn. Titanic Steel". The "2" size frame bears unique special order engraving on each side with classic hunting vignettes of "Little Sure Shot" dressed in her traditional wide-brimmed hat and flowing skirt posed with a gunning dog framed in a circle and surrounded by scroll work. Game birds appear in smaller circles just down range with one bird in each scene appearing to be mortally wounded. "Parker Bros" is engraved in flowing banners along side. The trigger plate features a scene with majestic stag and flighted birds surrounded by scrolls. There is single incised rib behind each fence with the balance a foliate Arabesque scroll. Mounted with fine nicely figured walnut, checkered side panels with fleur-de-lis dropper points, checkered ball grip with gold initial oval engraved with monogram "HCW" (unknown, obviously initials of a later owner), Pachmayr vented brown white line recoil pad and checkered splinter forend with finely engraved appended metal. Bore diameter: left - .733, right - .733. Bore restrictions: left - .000, right - .000. Wall thickness: left - .037, right - .033. Drop at heel: 2-3/8", drop at comb: 1-5/8". Weight: 7 lbs. 9 oz. LOP 14-1/4". "Parker Gun Identification and Serialization" book identifies gun as T15 which is a grade 5 with Titanic bbls, ejectors, 12 ga with 30" bbls and pistol grip. This unique firearm is pictured in the "The Parker Story" on pg 639 and suggests the gun was probably ordered by someone who greatly admired Ms. Annie. At the time of this article all the factory records had not yet been discovered and the records for this specific gun were not found, thus the assumptive tone of the article. Since this article, additional original factory records have been found and a recent request from PGCA produced a factory letter which reveals and confirm the shotgun was ordered on Feb 21, 1903 by Frank E. Butler (Annies husband)and sent to 18 Broadway New York (Welles Bldg). The gun was further specified with 4 1/2" ball grip, Silvers pad and no safety. Stock LOP: 14 1/8", Drop at Heel: 2 1/4" and WT: 7 1/2 - 7 3/4 lbs. The price was $200 plus $25 for ejectors and $4 for the Silvers pad. A credit of $200 was allowed for gun #107950 (BH 12/30).

There is a good bit of evidence that Frank Butler was taking delivery of quite a few Parker Bros. guns. How many of those Frank then sold to folks as "Annie's gun" is anybody's guess.

Researcher,
I wish I could just find a set of measurements from a gun that Annie actually owned and shot.
Frank was certainly an entrepreneur, if you believe everything he is alleged to have done.
He even married Annie when she was ten if you believe everything.
Then we find rifle cartridges loaded with birdshot, and her (allegedly) not being as good a shot as written, it certainly is intriguing. But in my mind she is still a hero and a legend. But best of all to me, was when she reached celebrity status and was wealthy, she didn't forget her roots, family and friends. Now that is a Lady.