doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com Joseph Jakob, Philadelphia gunmaker...

I'm going to revise this guess and say 1884-1885 due to the 1883/1884 advancements on the Anson & Deeley's Body Action such as the overhanging secondary scear and the safety. To parallel Axle's somewhat raw description of the Suhl firearms merchant/gun maker H.A. Lindner, I can find little variance in the Charles Daly Body Action/A&D sporting weapon and the advancements by Anson & Deeley on the 1876 patent in 1883/1884,i.e. H.A. Lindner contributed little to the refinement of the Charles Daly import longarm, which is basically the culmination of the Anson & Deeley advancement patents. About the only difference is the secondary scear spring was mounted on the top tang on the A&D Body Action and was much lower on the Charles Daly import scattergun and I don't think that to be enough to be outside of the filed patent protection. Also the scear proper and secondary scear to trigger interface seems to be inverted on the offerings by H.A. Lindner. The safety is the same and pretty much all points to a bonafide(?) A&D Body Action along with the Deely & Edge forend fastener.

Kind Regards,

Raimey
rse

Raimey, your above posts give us a good framework for the History of the Anson and Deeley/Westley Richards here and abroad. Just to add a bit to the puzzle, we see WR/AD actions on William Schaefer, E. Thomas, and several other American makers. The WR hammer gun actions appear on literally dozens of American makers.

Mr. Hallquist do you have any idea when the H&R-A&D/WR relationship was terminated? Just to make sure I understand, were the American makers using the WR or Scott Action as found on the George/H.A. Lindner/Sauer Charles Daly import hammerguns? Now I will note that there were Charles Daly hammerless import sporting weapons like the #98 that wears the Anson & Deeley Brevete stamp and based on the U.S. of A. A&D Body Action patent of 1876: http://www.doublegunshop.com/forums/ubbt...809d6c860bbaadb

I contend that Charles Daly had made the rounds and after being rebuffed by the British makers for his Charles Daly import longarm and headed to Suhl, had made the many, many sourcing connections. SD&G just had their fingers in about every sporting weapons pie there was.

Kind Regards,

Raimey
rse

Although probably just happenstance, but would this Charles Daly sleeved by Westley Richards at Pugsguns bring us full circle????
http://www.pugsguns.com/findItem.action?id=2022



Kind Regards,

Raimey
rse

New revision due to additional info.
As usual while I was searching for something else I stumbled across more information on South Philadelplhia gunmaker/firearms merchant Joseph Jakob. It appears he hung out his shingle as the War of Northern Aggression commenced and at least the firm, or some variant & maybe Joseph Jakob himself, till 1905. He made percussion dueling pistols and muzzleloaders to the customers specifications. In the 1870s he seemed to parallel William R. Schaefer in effort as both had 2 to 3 craftsmen working in their respective shops. He must have been an obsessive-compulsive as his shop in every detail was as clean as a pin. One could not find the shop of Messieurs Purdey any more immaculate or more organized than that of Joseph Jakob. Also his workmanship was compared to that of Purdey at the time. Upon entry to the shop, one would pass thru a portal, where a half glass door hung, noting white curtains covering the window panes, and passing across a white surfaced floor that was so clean one could take lunch off of it. A few small rugs were neatly placed in the shop. All this cleanliness was due largely to the efforts of his daughter. Prior to say 1890, one would have found several Joseph Jakob examples in a gun case with a set of glass doors. During the 1890s the guns were replaced by sporting weapon components and sporting related items. The demise of the firm of Joseph Jakob can be attributed to the lack of embracement to mechanization. After the truce of the War of Northern Aggression in 1865, one could not find a machine made sporting weapon in the U.S. of A. and the Brits had cornered the market. But over the next decade the scales were going to tilt in the other direction with respected to partially machine made and machine made sporting weapons. This transition forced Joseph Jakob's shop from a multi-man effort shop to a single man shop, to pretty much a repair facility peddling shell cutters and the like. By 1890 the firm was listed as Joseph Jakob & Sons and the reorganization may have occurred earlier say between 1885 & 1889. It was either the name change, or an address change, from 1890 foward till 1905 when the shop appears to have been closed. Something occured in 1899 and it may be that Joseph Jakob retired or expired and the sons continued for about another 5 years. This is purely conjuecture but it was a bumpy road for the firm from the mid 1890s to 1905 and possibly as late as 1909.

When H.A. Lindner hung out his shingle, he seems to be "THE" source for Joseph Jakob's sporting weapons. #2962 was a combo with a 16 bore pattern welded tube partnered with a rifled in 45-70. Either the scattergun tube or both wear H.A. Lindner's "Crown" over "Crossed Pistols". #3246 was a side by side DR in a 0.45"(45-70?) calibre with a doll's head extension on a Body Action with "Anson & Deeley Brevete #1152" on the standing breech. Both 28" tubes were stamped with H.A. Lindner's trademark and accompaning the DR was a 20 bore tubeset which I guess also to wear the trademark.

Kind Regards,

Raimey
rse

I guess I missed the discussion about the 20 gauge combo gun. Now I have to read the entire thread again.

Raimey-

Thanks for sharing. Where did you find the info?

And I wonder if combos were a specialty for Jakob? A guy emailed me about owning another one.

Yeah, I was trying to track one down. I'd like to see the marks. For some reason in my mind I can't bring forward that possibility that H.A. Lindner made a combo. Most of the info was from the 1908/1909 Field & Stream articles by W. L. Colville in a V or VI article series on "Old-Time American Sportsman". Alexander McComas, Patrick Mullin(expired in 1895 at 90 years?- http://query.nytimes.com/mem/archive-free/pdf?res=F40D1EFD355416738DDDAF0994DA415B8585F0D3 ), D. Kirkwood, John Krider, John Siner and others are all mentioned to some extent. Then city directories, James Gopsill's, and tid-bits here and there.

But almost without a doubt the serial number range, when one exists, is that of H.A. Lindner.

Kind Regards,

Raimey
rse

I forgot to note that Colville must have spent a fair amount of time in the Joseph Jakob(sometimes seen as Jacob) shop. To tell the truth, I don't know what his specialty might have been but he would scratch one off of whatever you might desire. I'd guess he made 7 to 10 a year up till the 1890s and then just a couple a year dwindling to about zero. He may have made more per year when sourcing either of the Lindners from the mid 1870s to the mid 1880s. I forgot to add his sons were named Andrew & Henry and they appeared to been reduced to peddling footware toward the end.

Kind Regards,

Raimey
rse

Just got a pic of this combo. It's a 12g X 45.70. Looks Lindner-esque to me. Hoping to get more pics soon.




OWD