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#547787 - 06/06/19 07:31 PM Re: Joh Springer in Wein [Re: James M]
ellenbr Offline
Sidelock
***

Registered: 08/10/07
Posts: 8918
Loc: North Alabama
On the www.naboje.org/en/node/12539# site it gives the following:

3,1 grams of Black Powder - 47.8 grains

16.2 gram bullet - 250 grain

460 m/s - velocity - about 1500 ft/s

Eo. - 1700 J.


Cheers,

Raimey
rse


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#547802 - 06/07/19 02:42 AM Re: Joh Springer in Wein [Re: James M]
fuhrmann Offline
Sidelock

Registered: 03/15/10
Posts: 121
Raimey

thatīs an interesting site!
Those detailed data come up for "verified users" only?
Those loading data look quite right.
I havenīt seen such detailed data in all my pre-WW I catalogs (Roth, DWM, Utendoerffer).
It seems those Czech or Slovak ammo factories continued loading the old BP cartridges after WW I, maybe even after WW II and started to measure decent ballistic data?

Questions:
what sort of black powder?
Who generated or collected the data?
When?

My approach would be to choose a comparable bullet and not exceed the velocity given for the BP load.

Checking your loads with a chronograph is a must!

VV powder means Vihtavuori?
I have never seen any data published for VV powders as BP substitute.

fuhrmann

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#547809 - 06/07/19 08:30 AM Re: Joh Springer in Wein [Re: fuhrmann]
ellenbr Offline
Sidelock
***

Registered: 08/10/07
Posts: 8918
Loc: North Alabama
Originally Posted By: fuhrmann

I havenīt seen such detailed data in all my pre-WW I catalogs (Roth, DWM, Utendoerffer).
It seems those Czech or Slovak ammo factories continued loading the old BP cartridges after WW I, maybe even after WW II and started to measure decent ballistic data?


Yeah, me thinks the Czech folks are withholding valuable info or it may be that we haven't asked but they are mining data from somewhere. Remember S&B has been established for quite a few years and many times an Austrian or German weapons maker would cut a chamber to the whims of his client(Czech, Serb, whomever).

Cheers,

Raimey
rse

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#547810 - 06/07/19 08:31 AM Re: Joh Springer in Wein [Re: fuhrmann]
ellenbr Offline
Sidelock
***

Registered: 08/10/07
Posts: 8918
Loc: North Alabama
Originally Posted By: fuhrmann

Questions:
what sort of black powder?
Who generated or collected the data?
When?


Have zero idea but it provides parameters from which to design a load.


Cheers,

Raimey
rse

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#547811 - 06/07/19 08:38 AM Re: Joh Springer in Wein [Re: fuhrmann]
ellenbr Offline
Sidelock
***

Registered: 08/10/07
Posts: 8918
Loc: North Alabama
Originally Posted By: fuhrmann


VV powder means Vihtavuori?
I have never seen any data published for VV powders as BP substitute.


Yes, Vihta Vuori. No, possibly not a true substitute for BP but they too have been in operation for quite some time and some of their old powders replicate(closely or loosely???) those powders used in the period when loads were converted from BP to semi-smokeless. Ford put me on a trail of VV N140 where Axel E had noted that VV N140 had a similar burn rate to R5(Rottweil) and the results were stellar.

https://www.lhs-germany.de/en/powder/smokeless-powder/rottweil/

So I think I would migrate from BP to 4198, whatever, & then over to VV. Seems one has to match the powder to the chamber?


Cheers,

Raimey
rse

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#547820 - 06/07/19 10:29 AM Re: Joh Springer in Wein [Re: James M]
ellenbr Offline
Sidelock
***

Registered: 08/10/07
Posts: 8918
Loc: North Alabama
A knowledgeable cartridge collector in Germany gives it as the 10X60R Roth and to fill the case to the base of the bullet w/ black powder & let if fly. Pretty corrosive I must say.


Cheers,

Raimey
rse

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#547859 - 06/07/19 06:27 PM Re: Joh Springer in Wein [Re: James M]
ellenbr Offline
Sidelock
***

Registered: 08/10/07
Posts: 8918
Loc: North Alabama
Ok, now what >>of the shelf<< dies might one use to neck it down enough to accommodate a 0.391"+ diameter bullet?

Cheers,

Raimey
rse



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#547878 - 06/08/19 07:27 AM Re: Joh Springer in Wein [Re: James M]
ellenbr Offline
Sidelock
***

Registered: 08/10/07
Posts: 8918
Loc: North Alabama
40 Kal / 10mm Pistol dies are a bit too harsh & 44 Kal is just a skosh too large.


Cheers,

Raimey
rse

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#547906 - 06/08/19 02:21 PM Re: Joh Springer in Wein [Re: ellenbr]
Der Ami Offline
Sidelock
**

Registered: 07/04/12
Posts: 3561
Loc: East Alabama
Raimey,
What about 41 Mag, or 401 Herter? I haven't gotten to that point yet, but I am planning to crimp my 10x42R with the .401, if it works.
Mike

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#547912 - 06/08/19 03:49 PM Re: Joh Springer in Wein [Re: James M]
ellenbr Offline
Sidelock
***

Registered: 08/10/07
Posts: 8918
Loc: North Alabama
Thanks Ford. Has anyone shot any of the >>all<< Zinc bullets?


Cheers,

Raimey
rse

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