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Forums10
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Mar 29th, 2024
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Joined: May 2011
Posts: 1,199 Likes: 7
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: May 2011
Posts: 1,199 Likes: 7 |
Replying to DGM's lengthy and spot-on post, I have to ask: "how long do you think it will be until the uppercrusty folks in the development who don't shoot, will decide that the noise from the people who do shoot is more than they can bear and will try to sell (possibly only to find that no one else wants to live near a shooting range)?"
I mean, it's not like you're a non-golfer having to deal with the occasional golf ball landing on your yard or deck.
I can see this whole development as a bountiful fountain of legal fees for the residents' lawyers fighting back and forth about noise.
Last edited by Dave in Maine; 07/04/11 08:11 PM. Reason: typos
fiery, dependable, occasionally transcendent
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Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 355 Likes: 9
Sidelock
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OP
Sidelock
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 355 Likes: 9 |
Excellent point. This is not like Brays Island, which a small community of mostly part time residents who are hunting/shooting enthusiasts. This is planned to be 900 home big development of new homes on the edge of a major city.
As someone I spoke to who has been involved in these type of legal battles told me, a lot of lawyers for residents opposing gun clubs will offer to settle for a steel shot requirement because they know it significantly reduces the amount of shooting - often to the point of putting a gun club out of business.
You may have noticed in one of EPIC organizer replies that they pointed to some high end clubs that have gone steel only as evidence that this somehow makes it a better thing to do.
The reality is exclusive private clubs, such as the high dollar ones in NY that have gone steel have done so in part because they exist in exclusive areas where neighbors tend to send lawyers to community meetings rather than go themselves. Their members also have deep pockets to go after in a lawsuit. They can also charge member fees that offset the losses from reduced shooting due to a steel requirement.
I also understand one of the reasons the course designers wanted to locate the course away from the water was the noise issue.
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Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 1,393
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 1,393 |
Well I sent them an e-mail giving them my opinions on the dangers of steel shot ricochets to staff, bystanders and shooters.
I think DGM is correct, the noise factor will shut the shooting side down in short order.
A golf club would have been a better idea. Lawn bowls even better!
I hope Marty Fischer a) gets paid b) has no money of his own in this fly-by night BS plan.
Mike
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Joined: May 2011
Posts: 1,199 Likes: 7
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: May 2011
Posts: 1,199 Likes: 7 |
With 900 homes, it's a guarantee that at least 90 will be adamant in opposing any form of shooting. Probably closer to 300, I'll bet.
fiery, dependable, occasionally transcendent
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Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 1,754 Likes: 29
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 1,754 Likes: 29 |
Reality check here: stop bickering about the venues. The antis just love to sit and watch the infighting amongst gun owners. SxS guys vs., Autos, Pumps, OU's. Black guns versus "conventional sporting arms". on and on.
look, whatever their reasons are, the made their respective beds and will lay in them with their attending shooters. Why not wait ill after and count the attendance etc. see if it really matters. Do i think they were ill advised to ban lead, yes. But I am not going to criticize a shooting event because of it. hell, Ive been to the Vinatgers a number of times and I cant tell you how many times I have seen the sideways glances because I wasnt in costume. Myself, I think its kind of odd to play dress up, same goes for cowboy Action Shooting but to each his or her own. The more shooters the better. Regardless of their game, its the number of shooters overall that matters.
Celebrate the shoots. They are drawing form different parts of the country. The Vintager may have overplayed its hand with the double gun craze and be on the downward slide now, who knows. They do their thing. And do a nice job of it. So these guys may too. So do the other shoots. Eventually the, market will determine who lives and dies (metaphorically speaking of course).
So, infighting and bickering and condemnation do none of us any good. A united front is the best way to show the world what shooters are about.
Just my .02.
Brian
LTC, USA Ret.
NRA Patron Member
AHFGCA Life Member
USPSA Life Member
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Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 445 Likes: 47
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 445 Likes: 47 |
With 900 homes, it's a guarantee that at least 90 will be adamant in opposing any form of shooting. Probably closer to 300, I'll bet. Yep, but they may just have to gripe among themselves because Georgia, like South Carolina, has a gun range noise law that protects ranges from noise complaints. If it's organized as an amenity of the development then the homeowner's association could voluntarily shut it down but if it's legally a separate entity they might not be able to do anything. Who knows what will happen when lawyers get involved.
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Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 1,417
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 1,417 |
Reality check here: stop bickering about the venues. The antis just love to sit and watch the infighting amongst gun owners. SxS guys vs., Autos, Pumps, OU's. Black guns versus "conventional sporting arms". on and on.
look, whatever their reasons are, the made their respective beds and will lay in them with their attending shooters. Why not wait ill after and count the attendance etc. see if it really matters. Do i think they were ill advised to ban lead, yes. But I am not going to criticize a shooting event because of it. hell, Ive been to the Vinatgers a number of times and I cant tell you how many times I have seen the sideways glances because I wasnt in costume. Myself, I think its kind of odd to play dress up, same goes for cowboy Action Shooting but to each his or her own. The more shooters the better. Regardless of their game, its the number of shooters overall that matters.
Celebrate the shoots. They are drawing form different parts of the country. The Vintager may have overplayed its hand with the double gun craze and be on the downward slide now, who knows. They do their thing. And do a nice job of it. So these guys may too. So do the other shoots. Eventually the, market will determine who lives and dies (metaphorically speaking of course).
So, infighting and bickering and condemnation do none of us any good. A united front is the best way to show the world what shooters are about.
Just my .02.
Brian, I believe that you nailed it. Let's give them a chance and see what happens. They may: (1) go away and never be heard from again, (2) make changes in their requirements once they find out what their customers want, or (3) be a resounding success that will continue on for many years to come. In this anti-gun climate that we now face their can't be too many shooting venues IMHO. Best Regards, George
To see my guns go to www.mylandco.com Select "SPORTING GUNS " My E-Mail palmettotreasure@aol.com
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Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 580
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 580 |
I would love to retire ia a dedicated shooting community, much like golfers who retire in a community built arould a nicely designed golf course. The sounds of gunshots during the daytime hours would be music to my ears. 900 Homes in 1100 acres sounds a little dense for my tastes. Especially with a decent clays course in the middle.
However, limiting my shooting to steel would poison that thought.The developers obviously did not look at the demographics of the population they wish to sell to. I'm glad I am not an investor in this project.
As far as trying, whether advertant or not,to sabotage the Vintager's event is inexcusable in this sport where gentlemanly conduct is the excepted norm.
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Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 11,377 Likes: 105
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 11,377 Likes: 105 |
So, infighting and bickering and condemnation do none of us any good. A united front is the best way to show the world what shooters are about.
Just my .02.
The best united front for shooters is one that unites against unreasonable restrictions on lead. I have nothing against those restrictions--where they have a sound biological/environmental basis. (Like shooting into water or around marshes or wetlands. I have no problem switching to nontox when I hunt pheasants in such places, for example.) But if we don't take a stand against UNREASONABLE lead restrictions, we're allowing more and more of that camel--who already has not just his nose but most of his head--inside our tent. And we're making it easier to admit the entire animal, which would be an eventual total ban on lead shot. We've already won some significant victories in this area. Thanks to Congress, the EPA cannot regulate lead in ammunition. Right there, that's the 800 pound gorilla off our backs. That leaves only the USFWS to deal with at the federal level. And because their charter runs only to what happens on federal land or to migratory species, they've largely already regulated everything they can regulate (except doves, which may well happen). And just this year, at the state level, Montana, Iowa, and South Dakota have rejected additonal requirements for nontoxic shot--which shows that if we pay sufficient attention and make sufficient noise to our politicians, further unreasonable bans on lead are not inevitable. Let's keep fighting!
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Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 1,393
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 1,393 |
Bob, you are correct, sabotaging, whether inadvertent or not, a long-standing event such as the VC is very poor form.
As you say, 900 homes on 1100 acres less the acreage for a clays course would indicate cheek-by jowl houses.
Mike
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