doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com Help! What am I looking at?

Why would it be built in Belgium with Ugartechea's name on the sideplates and it looks like on the right water table is the old Ugartechea mark of an oblong circle with I. U. inside, which would prove to me the maker.

I believe it was made in Spain and shipped to a buyer in Belgium.

But, I'm certainly no expert.

Dear Sirs,

Thank you for taking the time to read this post and for all your thoughts and your replies.

Marc, I am going to forward the information regarding the Christophe. As far a records goes, Spain is in the same boat. Arrieta is the only company that seems to have kept good records. AyA has some records. The rest, nada, nothing, zero, zip. The Proof House in Eibar is as we say in Spanish "una verg�enza" --i.e. embarrassingly pitiful.

Gunman, I like your theory. It makes sense since the gun does have V.S. barrels.

Larry, I am waiting patiently for more pics.

2holer, that seems the likely explanation.

The poster who put up the picture of the Christophe or Bury still claims it is a Bury and added this photo:

The engraving seems to match...

Just by where the proof marks are placed on the action Id say the gun was made/proofed in Spain then imported into Belgium and had their proofs added....

As far as the gun having V. Sarasqueta barrels, I have an Arizaga SL from the 70s with Jabe barrels numbered to the gun. "Borrowing" barrels isn't rare. Today, it might be.

Marc,

Are you sure the picture of the gun I posted above is a Christophe and belongs to your friend Daryl? I have been told once again that is a Bury taken from the book by Laurent Bedu edited in Paris in 2009 called "Platines, les plus beaux fusils du monde." I suspect that is where the pictures of the Defourny came from also.

Here is one more of a Defourny self opener from an old catalogue for OWD

Marc,

I received your email. Thank you.

For those of you who remember this thread, we are looking at a gun that up until now, did not exist. For years, amongst Spanish gun enthusiasts, there were rumors that Ugartechea also built a few guns with Beesley actions. In his book, Spanish Best, Terry Wieland only mentions the AYA Senior as the only Spanish gun built on a Beesley action. Well, on another forum in Spain we have finally found an Ugartechea with what appears to be a Beesley action, only unlike the AyA Senior, it has Holland locks --posing the question, how does this action work? There was some speculation that either it was actually based upon a similar action as found in a Defourney or a similar self-opening action found in another gun suspected to be built by Jules Bury (a Christophe)... What made the gun more of an enigma is that it has both Spanish and Belgian proof marks.

Within the last few days a few more pictures and a little more information has surfaced regarding the Ugartechea in question on the Spanish gun forum, Caza y Armas. First, the gun in question has Victor Saraqueta barrels that do not appear to be original to the gun. The barrels are from a different time period than the action of the gun and were probably made because the original barrels had been damaged. We now know from the Spanish proof marks used on the action of the gun, that the action was made between 1921-1929 because it has the stamp mark of Alfonso XIII. However, supposedly Ugartechea did not start making guns until 1927, so that narrows the date of production from 1927-1929. What remains to be seen is the insides of the gun in order to better understand how a self-opener would work with Holland locks and who actually made this gun...

Here are the additional pictures that are very interesting, especially of the one of the action which shows what appears to be cocking levers in addition to the opening levers on the water table...

Comments welcomed!

Condition of the hidden 3rd fastener certainly makes it look as if the barrels--if not the entire gun--have seen some hard use.

Larry,

I agree. In general, the Spanish are notorious for not taking care of their guns. For many, no matter how nice a gun is, it is seen as a tool and as a result will sit in the corner of the basement in a case, un-oiled and still dirty from the last hunt.

Case in point, my cousin who lives just south of the Spanish/French boarder has a nice AyA #2 that he hunts with. He got the gun is trade and as a result doesn't realize that it is a $3000-$4000 gun even though I told him several times. Last time I saw it, it looked pretty rough from neglect.

David, Marc, and others. The lock 1641 is from my Christophe. I am looking at the lock as I type. I took the picture a couple of years ago. I might guess that the Christophe is made by Jules Bury with parts from Britte. The receiver is marked with a crown over JB.

My take is that the gun was made in Belgium for retail in Spain. Not an unusual way to have been done in Europe. We see Belgian made guns retailed in England [James Kirk for one], in Austria [Novotny by Britte for another]. The entanglement of trade between countries was much greater than we have imagined before. I have not checked my catalogs, but feel that Dumoulin could have made the Spanish gun , in part or total. Engraving is more Belgian than Spanish in my opinion, but the engraver could have been a Belgian, relocated to Spain, similar to the many Belgian engravers who relocated to Italy after the War.