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Apr 29th, 2024
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 803
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 803 |
It is my understanding that CSMC can manufacture the Model 21 shotgun without any license from Olin. The phrase 'Model 21'is not Trademarked. I have Trademarked the phrase 'Model 21 Shotgun Forum' for my Forum use only.
I also have a CSMC 'Baby' frame Model 21 and it has no Winchester markings.-Dick
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Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 14,129 Likes: 198
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 14,129 Likes: 198 |
I agree with everything that Pauline has posted, except that at some time in the transaction, Tony must have come into possession of some fairly finished receivers, because Model 21 production started almost immediately after he obtained possession of the manufacturing rights. I remember being told, quite a few years ago, that "We are almost out of 12 gauge frames and we have no more 20 gauge frames." Pauline will tell us if I am right or wrong. The "Grand Royal" terminology is all in the wording. I think I could market one today if I chose to do so.
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Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 691 Likes: 7
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 691 Likes: 7 |
Can Tony legally build a Winchester Model 21 today?
Wild Skies
Since 1951
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Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 2,982 Likes: 106
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 2,982 Likes: 106 |
Eightbore: I think the real meat of the question here is not whether you, Galazan or anyone else can produce a Grand Royal Model 21 but rather does this gun being advertised really letter as a Winchester made gun with real Winchester proof steel? According to Paulene who would unequivocally know this gun would have to have been made in the Winchester Custom shop to letter. Was it or wasn't it?
Socialism is almost the worst.
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 803
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 803 |
I think we can safely assume that the 'Grand Royal' in question was not made in the Winchester Custom Shop. -Dick
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Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 5,021
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 5,021 |
He can build it legally but he cant stamp the name Winchester on it.
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Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 13
Boxlock
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Boxlock
Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 13 |
In regards to the Winchester factory frames:
There were three bidders on the M21 remains at the factory. The fellow I returned to the old Custom Shop with was one of these bidders. We went up on the fourth floor where production was done and to the fifth floor where parts, wood and fixtures were stored. I remember distinctly that no frames were up there. They had always been stored there in the past. All other parts, etc. were still there. I commented to this guy about the missing frames and he showed me the paperwork issued to him for bidding. It stated said no frames or drawings would be included. I remember this guy was pretty upset about it, especially the frames. He told me that due to legalities these items were not part of the deal.
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Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 13,879 Likes: 15
Sidelock
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OP
Sidelock
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 13,879 Likes: 15 |
I once traced some "scrapped" parts from us to a scrap dealer, then to a couple other aircraft parts dealers, and onto an airline. My company changed the way we scrapped parts as a result, to physical distruction. Scrap dealers can be pretty savy and once they figure out something they have could be worth more than scrapmetal prices, they put some effort into marketing it.
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Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 2,982 Likes: 106
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 2,982 Likes: 106 |
Unless I'm mistaken, the Grand Royal in question is now gone from Galazan's website. Poof....it's gone.
Socialism is almost the worst.
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Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 13,879 Likes: 15
Sidelock
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OP
Sidelock
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 13,879 Likes: 15 |
Possibly they discovered an error in the advertisement? So, is this a question of "poof"?
Last edited by Chuck H; 04/18/11 04:12 PM.
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