doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com Inherited Peterlongo combo double info?

Hi everyone, first post here;

I have a combination gun I am trying to find information about. It is a Johann Peterlongo 16 gauge x 9.3mm (I think 9.3x72R) side by side with exposed hammers, made in Innsbruck, Austria. It has the Ferlach 1829-1958 multi-barrel black powder proof mark and the 1891 and later provisional proof. As it says nothing about Marholdt, I assume it is between 1891-1898 in manufacture. It has an odd eight groove rifling, and what appears to be an extra-full choke. For one I would like to know how much it�s worth, roughly. It came back from Europe after WW2 from one of my relatives, so I have no interest in selling, just curious whether it�s an $800 gun or an $8,000 gun. Finish is a tad rough, but absolutely no pitting of any sort and the bores are bright and polished, only thing really is a very small ding 2/3 of the way to the end of the shotgun barrel, some stock dings and a couple dings on top of the rib. Locks up reasonably tight (I can feel a very slight movement if I hold it upside down by the muzzle and the end of the stock and apply up and down pressure with the back of the barrel on me knee, if you just pick it up by the grip and foregrip and try to wiggle it you can't feel it) and everything works smoothly.

My other question is if it is a shootable gun. It is in nearly perfect order, and if it was any of my other guns I�d have already shot it. But two things concern me; the small barrel ding, and the fact that my grandfather shot it at least once with a modern shell. Is it still safe to shoot? I don�t want to ruin such a nice piece of history, or blow my hands off. The barrel ding seems to be about 0.005� deep. It seems to have been there for a long time, as plastic from the wad when my grandfather shot it is present where it seems to have rubbed slightly.

If it is shootable, where is a good place to buy suitable shells? Would Polyweb or RST be good choices? And what about the rifle? Where would I find (preferably) cartridges or reloading supplies & data for the 9.3x72R barrel? I don�t plan on going through a box of shells a month or anything, but it has the best feel and balance of any gun I�ve picked up and I�d like to be able to occasionally shoot it.

Pictures here; http://s1081.photobucket.com/albums/j356/ChazsPictures/

Thanks,
Chaz

Oh, forgot to add, the barrels ring very nicely when tapped, no buzz.

Hello Chaz,
This is a nice standard Ferlach hammer combination rifle/shotgun or B�chsflinte or "cape gun" from 1914 (proof date), retailed by Peterlongo. I am no expert on US pricing but would guess $1500. Others will tell you more I am sure.
With kind regards,
Jani

Johann Peterlongo was a mastercraftsman and firearms merchant from the the mid 1850s till 1898. I believe Jani has the whole story/rest of the story, but I think Johann Peterlongo founded Tiroler Waffenfabrik Peterlongo in 1854, when he was 28 years of age. If he was born in 1826 he should have been a master by say 1850 and depending on what he had going on in the 1850s, he could have hung out his shingle anytime from 1850 to 1854. Richard Mahrholdt seems to be a real interesting character and must have been an apprentice or spent most of his walkabout at the Johann Peterlongo compound seeing he was the manager from 1898, when the lone bell tolled for Johann Peterlongo, till 1918, which was about the time Mahrholdt founded his company. If I'm not mistaken he penned the Waffenlexikon editions 1931 & 1937 and being an authority on weapons continued to mound info until his death in 1949. His son Herbert, possible the und Sohn of Richard of Richard Mahrholdt und Sohn founded in 1919, took the reins and penned the subsequent versions like the 1957 version. Richard Mahrholdt was born in 1878 and would have been a master by 1892 or so. He may have worked a stint at the shop of August Schuler as sources give they were close friends and some of offerings by Tiroler Wafenfabrik Peterlongo had the odd Schuler cartridges.

Littlegun is one source: http://www.littlegun.info/arme%20autrichienne/ancien%20artisan/a%20peterlongo%20gb.htm

Your Peterlongo example has the Rigby style forend latch which was a favorite of the Vienna craftsmen but without a doubt it was sourced from Ferlach, a weapons production nexus centered around royal hunting grounds. I'd make a cast of the chamber before I purchased any brass. Polywad are great for target while RST will fill the bill for any game pursuit. Dig would attach some concern to the dent, but if it is 2/3rds the length of the tube I wouldn't worry with it until you have the longarm in for some additional work. Nifty little read fold-down sight. The not for ball stamp denotes choke. Any chance of a pic of the area from the lugs to the forend latch?

Kind Regards,

Raimey
rse

There are at least a couple of different bore/case dimensions for 9.3X74. I did a story about a similar Peterlongo O/U in SSM a while back.

Thank you for the information! Also, I measured the dent, it's actually 14 1/2" from the breach. Also, while looking down the bore it does not seem to warp the reflections. In fact the plastic wad residue might just be coincidental. Think it's ok? I could make a mandrel and try to tap it out, but I'd rather not do that, especially as it seems to be only a couple thousandths of an inch deep.

Also, where do you buy the RST or Polywad shells from? Ballistics Products has RST 16 gauge shells on their website, but doesn't list the shot size. Polywad I can only find on their webstie with a min. order of four boxes. What about Gamebore's "Traditional Game" loads, are they low pressure shells?

And here is a picture of the area from the lugs to the latch.



Thanks again,
Chaz

Thanks, I didn't know that it was a Ferlach cape gun sold by Peterlongo, I thought that Peterlongo was the maker. It's nice knowing the exact date, too.

Thanks again,
Chaz

I thought that 9.3x74R was the smokeless adaptation of the 9.3x72R, and that this gun was black powder proofed. Do you mean the 9.3x72R?

Thanks,
Chaz

No, don't mix and match 9.3X74R & 9.3x72R. They aren't related at all. The "706" or "703" just may be for a particular maker or makers and the barrel knitter had the initials "JK", maybe even the maker. I can't say at all if either were active in 1914, but Josef Kruschizt & Jakob Koschat were active in 1945 when the Brits issued the Ferlach craftsmen their numbers. The preliminary data string is forward of the forend hander and will give the values of the diameters on the preliminary pass. I think www.rstshells.com will get you to RST and www.polywad.com will direct you to Polywad. Gamebore is fine also but the recoil can be sharp at times.

Kind Regards,

Raimey
rse

Thanks Raimey, also, I asked if Steven meant 9.3x72R instead of 9.3x74R as he said; "There are at least a couple of different bore/case dimensions for 9.3X74.", and this gun is NOT 9.3x74R. (No shoulder, around .440 base dia.) I heard that the 9.3x72R was related in that it was developed with the 9.3x72R as a starting point, but made so that it could not be chambered in old 9.3x72R's and had more room for powder. (Could easily just be a BS story though)

Also, the data string reads; "1684 . 14 . 15.6 8.5" The six in 15.6 is faint but I think that's what it is. What does this all mean?

And thanks for the info on shells, I can find Gamebore by the box easily online, but I searched around and pressure was said to be as high as 8,400psi, more than I like considering RST's are said to be about 6,600psi. And while the kick won't be a problem for me, I don't want to beat the action up. I might try contacting some of RST's listed distributors to see if I can get a box of those instead.

That also brings up another question, what was the original proof PSI this gun was tested to?

Thanks again for your help,
Chaz