doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com Card & fiber wads vs 1-piece plastic

If one were to substitute card and fiber for 1-piece plastic wads with the same powder charge and shot weight what would you expect the differences to be for any given load?
Pressure:
Velocity:
Pattern:
Safety note: I have no intention of doing the above without lab verification, but I would like opinions before spending the money for lab tests.
My reasons for making a wad change is to be able to shoot 3/4 oz. target loads in the very tightly choked bores of a 1920 Parker without having to open up the chokes.

Wyo:
The general answer to your question is: higher, more, and who knows. But since you don't specify bore size, further input is difficult. Also... what relationship do you think there is between that shot charge and choke? Why open them? Choke has very little effect on pressure.

Best, Kensal

[quote=Kensal Rise]Wyo:
"The general answer to your question is: higher, more, and who knows. But since you don't specify bore size, further input is difficult. "

Sorry, my mistake. The bore is 16 gauge.

"Also... what relationship do you think there is between that shot charge and choke? "

The tight chokes on this Parker ensures that shots ranging from 20 to 35 yards are ineffective unless the bird is fringed because an extra full pattern at the above ranges makes them unfit for the table.

"Why open them?"

I want patterns suitable for upland bird hunting and there are several ways of accomplishing that goal, one of which is by using card and fiber wads instead of 1- piece plastic wads.

"Choke has very little effect on pressure.
Agreed."

The question is

You can simply remove the shotcup if you wish. Just cut it off. This will require filler wads on top of the 'brush wad' you just made. The BPI 'x-stream' insert takes up the space of 1/8oz shot, and that works to make a spreader wad too.

Use chilled rather than magnum shot, the two above techniques, and it should open the pattern up quite a bit.

An alternative to the x-wad is the old trick of dividing the shot column into layers with card wads.

Jim, I plan on using an old Lefever for grouse this year. The chokes are to tight for my type of shooting. I contacted Brian from New Era shells wanting to buy paper cased shells with fiber wads.I thaught this would open the pattern.His testing shows little difference between paper and plastic out to 30 yds. He recomended spreader loads.You may want to check around.
Dave

terc, I use card and fiber wads in only one gun and that is a #2 AyA choked IMP CYL and Mod. and because my first brass shells were Double Hammer, I could not use 1-piece plastic wads because of their inside diameter. After getting RMC brass hulls, I tried to use 1-piece plastic wads and the patterns were noticeably inferior to The loads in the DH hulls. I loaded the RMC hulls with the same as the DH loads and to my surprise the patterns were consistently outstanding. I load 12, 20 and 28 gauge brass hulls with 1-piece plastic wads and get great patterns, so I have not tried card and fiber wads in the other gauges.

It isn't that simple. Just as loading different brands/types of plastic wads changes performance, using fiber wads and cards of differing thicknesses, materials, and diameters will all effect pressure, velocity, and patterning differently.

There has been much debate about the merits of fiber wads vs plastic wads. For a time I made a point of researching it and I found just as many articles written in favor of one as in favor of the other. My personal experience is that well made ammunition with fiber wads performs the same as comparable ammunition loaded with plastic wads. I prefer shooting with fiber wads because they don't leave plastic residue in the barrels and they don't leave indestructible plastic wads littering the ground.

I am sure you can work up some loads with fiber wads that will meet your objective. But why don't you first try out some 16ga factory ammo loaded with fiber wads to see how you like them?

In general, higher charges, like tighter chokes, tend to cause greater pellet deformation. The result is more uneven patterning and less retained pellet energy way downrage. Shooting shot faster produces more penetration at close range but as the pellets fly they loose energy faster because they are more deformed and misshaped. At 40 yards those more deformed pellets may actually be going slower than well shaped pellets fired at a lower velocity. For long range, I'll take a good moderate velocity load over a high velocity magnum load any day.

I experimented with my Perazzi skeet gun with Tula chokes. As these guns were originally made to use Russian paper shells with felt wads, I loaded some Federal paper Gold Medal hulls with:

18gr Green Dot, 1/16" over powder wad, 1/2" felt wad, 1/16" undershot wad. 1 oz #8 shot. Federal 109 primers

18gr Green Dot, WAA 12 plastic wad, 1 oz #8 shot, Federal 109 primers.

I wondered how the patterns would compare using the two types of wads, I thought I might get a better skeet pattern with the felt wads at 16 yards as that Tula choke I think was designed for felt wads, and a tighter pattern using the WAA12 wads.
To my surprise there was no discernable difference between the two wads. FWIW,
Mike