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Now that the weather is starting to moderate I will be doing some simple pattern testing with a couple long barreled tightly choked 16 gauge guns using fiber wads with Sprd R inserts and roll crimps. From what I have been able to garner from looking at various data from public and private sources it appears that chamber pressures are somewhat less with fiber wads while velocities are higher.

The load I intend to test is A Cheddite Paper Hull trimmed to 2 9/16th inches, 17.9 grains of Unique, 7/8th ounce of shot using 1/2 inch fiber wad with 1/8th inch nitro cards on either side of the fiber wad a Sprd R with 1/8th ounce of teh shot on top of the disc and .030 overshot card. My control load is a cheddite plastic hull, Gualandi 1621 wad with 17.9 grains of Unique and 7/8th ounces of shot. If anything interesting shows up I'll post again on Sunday.

Wyobirds I think for you to get any appreciable increase in pattern you will need to use some sort of spreder device weather it be a SpredR, X or soda straw

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OOps, what I meant to say was that the original Tula choke worn by the MU8 skeet gun was designed to work with Russian paper shells with felt or fibre wads, not the Perazzi!
I still have a few of those Russion shells from the World Moving Target Championships in Endomtom, 1983. Faint aroma of burning horsehair on firing!
Mike

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You will probably have much better results if you don't use over shot cards. Comparing shotshells with overshot cards to those without is like comparing broccoli to peaches.

There are some very good 16ga 15/16oz loads in 67mm cases with fiber wads available if you decide to use factory ammo. You can find them by googling "16ga royal game". Of course that's not going to help you with the choke.


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Quote:
If one were to substitute card and fiber for 1-piece plastic wads with the same powder charge and shot weight what would you expect the differences to be for any given load?
Pressure:
Velocity:
Pattern:
Safety note: I have no intention of doing the above without lab verification, but I would like opinions before spending the money for lab tests.
My reasons for making a wad change is to be able to shoot 3/4 oz. target loads in the very tightly choked bores of a 1920 Parker without having to open up the chokes.


Lower, lower, tighter. Much easier to get tight patterns at lower velocity. The trick is to get your tight long range pattern at high velocity so the pellets have suffiecient energy to do the job.

Back in my early days of reloading the "standard" 1200 fps load most every trap shooter in my circle used was a Federal paper case, Federal primer, 23 grains of Red Dot, a nitro card wad, two Feltan-Bluestreaks, and 1 1/8 ounce of # 7 1/2 or #8. Then along came the little PGS (plastic gas seal) wad to replace the nitro card, and for the same 1200 fps you could drop the powder charge to 18 grains of Red Dot.

Last edited by Researcher; 03/18/11 08:57 PM.
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Originally Posted By: Grenadier
You will probably have much better results if you don't use over shot cards. Comparing shot shells with overshot cards to those without is like comparing broccoli to peaches.



Grenadier the purpose of this exercise I am trying to get an open pattern from a tightly choked barrel. I'm quite sure that at normal hunting distances of 35 yards or less (I'm not comfortable shooting game over that distance any longer) that there will be no discernable difference betweem rool crimped and folded crim pattern performance so I'll shoot a couple extra patterns with the same load as the roll crimped shells and we shall see.

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Excellent. Please let us know how things work out.


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A few years back BASC in the UK commissioned lethality study on game cartridges, part of which was a measurement of pattern percentage variations between fibre and monowad cartridges.

In cartridges loaded as nearly the same as can be there was no discernible difference in pattern percentages. Both sets had modern star crimps in plastic cases without a card overwad.

Twicebarrel If you'd like a copy of the study just drop me your email addy to MOLLOP@AOL.com. I think I've got it stored on my No.2 PC.

Regards

Eug

PS as an afterthought ... the only spreader loads I've seen that actually worked had a cruciform insert running lengthways in the shot charge. You might be able to buy them in the US. Alternatively you could spend the evenings cutting bits of cardboard into to shape and glueing them together. crazy

Last edited by eugene molloy; 03/19/11 05:06 AM.

Thank you, very kind. Mine's a pint
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Now I'm confused again. The more I learn the less I know.
Up until recently I thaught the general opinion was that the advent of plastic shot cups revolutionized shot gun patterns. The standard chokes of M/F 75 years ago changed to I/M because of tighter patterns with plastic. Some gun writers tried to convince us that chokes in a shotguns aren't even necessary any more. Now I'm being told that at normal ranges it really doesn't make a difference.
Is there a simple explanation? I guess there usually isn't.

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[quote=eugene molloyPS as an afterthought ... the only spreader loads I've seen that actually worked had a cruciform insert running lengthwise in the shot charge. You might be able to buy them in the US. Alternatively you could spend the evenings cutting bits of cardboard into to shape and gluing them together. crazy [/quote]

Eugene thanks for the offer of the study but this little project is a non scientific test to see how much pattern improvement I can expect to achieve at normal hunting ranges by using a commercially available disc and post spreader device (Polywad Spred-R) commonly available here in the Colonies in my tightly choked 1880s vintage Lefever and 1920s vintage A H Fox. After shooting hundreds of roll crimped shells I have the feeling that there will be no improvement in pattern using folded crimp but since I'm going to the trouble of shooting a number of loads with a number of guns throwing in a couple folded crimped shells to validate my perception seems like a good idea.

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Twice: Could I get more information on the various types of spreaders. I am familiar with the yellow overshot discs with the small shaft molded into it but have not used the others. Many thanks.


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