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Joined: Feb 2011
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I picked up a Philadelphia Arms Co gun over the weekend. It says fox on the reciever ser#1199. any body know anything about these guns. My fox book says only 12 known at the printing of the book. It has 2 sets of barrels number matching and 2 forarms matching numbers for all. Is this a rare gun does it have any value barrels are 30 inch full these also have a rear site and 28 mod. pretty nice looking gun has a lot of drop in the stock. Any help wold be great on value how rare??

Last edited by reddhott2; 02/19/11 11:06 AM.
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You ought to post on the Fox site---there will be a lot of interest from those guys. foxcollectors.com

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Reddhott, I believe the story is that the Philadelphia action bodies were used to make the first Sterlingworth Pin-guns in 1910 and 1911. I've never seen an actual Philadelphis gun, but I did see a Baltimore Arms gun (another, prior Ansley Fox endeavor) at a local gunshow a few weeks ago. I started to buy it for the Fox interest, but it was in too bad shape to do anything with...Geo

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Originally Posted By: Geo. Newbern
I believe the story is that the Philadelphia action bodies were used to make the first Sterlingworth Pin-guns in 1910 and 1911.


That's what I always thought, too. But I've been informed that the Philadelphia Arms frame is actually longer than the sculpted hinge pin Foxes.


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Per the Fox collectors website, approximately 2,000 Philadelphia Arms Co. guns were produced. A far cry from 12.

I have one myself, I wish there were only 12 made.

ROMAC #218417 02/18/11 08:40 PM
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It should say Philadelphia Arms Co. on the rib. If it says Philadelphia Gun Co. on the gun it is a cheap "trade brand" gun hawked at one time by, I think, E.K. Tryon.

See The Double Gun Journal, Volume Thirteen, Issue 4, and check this out --

http://www.foxcollectors.com/ah_fox/content/philadelphia_arms.html

How about some pictures of the gun? Grade? Barrel lengths? Grip style? I don't have 1199 on my list of observed specimens. My list is a lot longer now than when Mike wrote his book!!

Of every wrong thing he wrote in the book, that bit about early Sterlingworths possibly being made from Philadelphia Arms Co. frames is the worst.

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Originally Posted By: Researcher
Of every wrong thing he wrote in the book, that bit about early Sterlingworths possibly being made from Philadelphia Arms Co. frames is the worst.


Yup, that's where I got it. I appreciate the correction; nice to learn something, even if it is that what you'd learned before was wrong...Geo

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Researcher, how many are on your list now and what is the serial range? I know my #197 is on your list. I gave to you in May of last year on the Fox sight.

If it is not too much trouble it would be interesting to know how much the list has grown in the last 9 months or so.

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I have one in maybe 80% condition with good colors. Only real problem is a crushed butt pad, which may be original. 12ga, 30" Kruppp barrels as I recall.

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George,

Another thing is that it is a shame that Mike wasted the better part of a chapter in the book on Baltimore Arms Co. He should have covered the Fox Gun Co., Balto., Md. U.S.A.,



and ended the chapter with -- In January 1900, Ansley left to be a professional shooter for Winchester, his former partners reincorporated in West Virginia, as Baltimore Arms Co. with their principal place of business Baltimore, Maryland, and proceeded to build a gun of Frank A. Hollenbeck's design.

Ansley was neither an officer or director of Baltimore Arms Co. Whether he got any stock in BAC when all the assets of the Fox Gun Co. were transfered to BAC, or if he was bought or forced out I have not been able to determin.

For the first about two and one half years that Baltimore Arms Co. was in existance, Ansley was on the road as a professional shooter for Winchester, and during that time he moved his household to Philadelphia. By November 1902, he is busy incorporating Philadelphia Arms Co. and raising capital for that venture.

The only connection of Ansley Fox to Baltimore Arms Co. that I have found was in late 1904 when he bought a great deal of the machinery and fixtures of Baltimore Arms Co. at their receiver's sale. I believe that is the equipment he used when he left Philadelphia Arms Co. in December 1904, and set up A.H. Fox Gun Co. in early 1905.

My table of observed Philadelphia Arms Co. guns now contains 56 entries with serial numbers ranging from 59 to 1845. One E-Grade (but I know there is another, just don't have the serial number), one D-Grade, three C-Grades, five B-Grades, and all the rest A-Grades. All 12-gauge, all with extractors, and all with Krupp barrels. The Philadelphia Arms Co. 1905 catalogue mentions the option of Damascus barrels on the C- and higher grades, but I've never seen a Damascus barrel PAC gun.

Dave

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