doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com Are 12 gauges dead now?

Most new shotgun models are introduced in 12 gauge only. Very few ever offer small gauges in these models. Only those that finally offer those models in small gauges will ever get my business.

I'd suggest that it depends on the type of 12 gauge. In this economy, people aren't spending as broadly on guns in general. Add to that, if someone is buying something it probably isn't a "commodity gun" because everyone has 10 friends selling Mossberg 500s and Remington 870s these days. If you want one, you can buy a like new one for a fraction of original cost. Commoditized 12 gauge guns are not in demand because there is a surplus. (one friend of mine has 8 clunker 12 gauge pumps and nothing else...does he need 8?)

Now if we're talking about a 2.5" game gun or even a 2" chambered vintage 12 bore, those seem to be as saleable as any other premium double gun out there.

I guess the point is, commoditized guns aren't in short supply but they are in limited demand. The premium stuff (sub-gauge guns) and best grade 12s are still saleable at fair prices.

The big 10 is still king at my house.

Not so much in modern times, Don. At least not in sxs. Parker Repro, 20ga came first. Ditto RBL. And the sxs that come out first in 12ga often don't make it past their initial introduction. Marlin, I think, goofed when they resurrected the Elsie back in 1968, 12ga only. They might have had a winner there in 20ga. More recently, the Ruger Gold Label. The last version of the SKB sxs to be imported were 20 and 28ga only. The Smith & Wesson Gold Elite was 20ga only.

Looks like quite a few of the makers/importers of sxs are getting the message.

I carried my new to me 16ga. model 12 in a bit of snow, for a few miles on a rabbit hunt (found more grouse trails then rabbit). It is noticeably a 1/2lb. lighter then both my other 16ga. sxs's. The chokes are being opened as I type, and it will be with me on most of my hunts in the future.

Don.

A member here had a pretty 2" light 12g sidelock for sale here for a long time. I think he eventually sold it, but it moved about as slowly as anything if not more. The quick sale is the exception today. Most seem to be on the net for many months and even years, lately.

I am a small bore / light gun fanatic. This thread is interesting to me because I think on the Fox Collectors website and the Parker Collector's Website the big 12 gauge and ten gauge goose guns get most of the interest and most of the posts. I haven't been to the Southern SxS but read a post where Eightbore reccommended against spreader loads as most shooters want all the choke and lead they can get so I assume the course is set for long shots. The Fox Association has an annual clays game with trophy that is set up for long distance guns.

I think the Fox HE 12s are amazing guns and had amazing performance with their contemporaraneous cartridges. The Parker DHE 3 frames and 4 Frame guns in 10 and 12 gauge guns are fantastic long distance guns.

So it appears to me that the long-term, serious, studious, note-taking, serial-number-tracking long-time collectors tend to collect high original condition 12 gauges. Certainly the ones I know do. And they are the types that tend to start or officer the collector's associations. It also seems that there are a lot more high condition old American 12 gauge doubles around than there are what I would call flushining-bird small gauge guns cause the flushing bird guns tend to have had the dog hunted out of them.

My weakness is SxS Bob White guns:

16 gauge Parker O Frame, 5lbs 14oz, 8 and 12
28 gauge Parker Reproduction, 5lbs 5oz, mod and full
Ithaca sixteen, 6lbs 4oz, cyl and mod
Ithaca sixteen 6lbs 4oz, IC and Mod
20 gauge London sidelock, 5lbs 13, IC and IC
20 gauge Birmy boxlock, 5lbs 8oz, Cyl and Mod
28 gauge Birmy boxlock, 5lbs 4oz, Cyl and Mod
Fox 16 gauge, 6lbs 6oz, mod and mod
Spanish 20 gauge, 5lbs 14oz, cyl and mod
Fabrique Nationale boxlock 12 gauge, 6lbs 2oz, cyl and mod
Manufrance 16, 6lbs 4oz ic and full
Manufrance 16, 6lbs 6oz, ic and full
Singleshot Birmy sixteen hammer gun, 4lbs 9oz
Singleshot Iver Johnson sixteen 5-1/2 pounds
Winchester Model 12 2-3/4" 16 gauge, factory cylinder choke

And I just picked up a nice little Fox A grade, 26" barrels, capped pistol grip, choked cyl and mod from the factory, 26" barrels, good stock dimensions, 5lbs, 9oz.

If, like Markethunter, I was a wildfowl fanatic and spent all my disposable income and time on chasing down ducks and geese instead of quail I am sure I would be interested in old wildfowl guns and probably not 5-1/2 pound upland guns.

Perhaps someone here has knowledge of how high original condition 12 gauges are moving and wouldn't mind commenting here.


Best,

Mike

Mike,
My take is that the really, really serious collectors are also fascinated by the small bore guns, Parker collectors being a particularly smitten crowd as prices of .410 and 28g Parkers reflect. Even the Fox collectable condition smaller bores carry a premium. Basically, all desireable maker doubles carry a premium, even modern made major labels from London, or other foreign labels.

The American market is certainly stronger for small bores.

Collectors like to buy toys they don't have and most have a nice 12-bore as more are available.

They all start looking for the smaller stuff and there is less of it about so it sells faster and for more money.

I have no time for the small bore fetish personally. A close to 6 3/4 - 7lb 12-bore was made in far higher numbers than anything else for a reason - it does the job better. i'll get my crash helmet!

It's called second childhood...