doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com Buying Online- Ins and Outs

Have an urge to buy a used British game gun but have few to choose from locally and so I am contemplating an online purchase.

1.How do these transactions work? I have spoken with my local gun shop and they will handle the paperwork- do I simply supply his address and Fed. permit number to the seller along with my payment- and then pick up the gun at the gun shop when it is delivered?

2.When a seller says that he will entertain offers, what is a reasonable amount for me to suggest? -10%? -20%? More?

3. How about returns if the gun isn't acceptable to me? I should decide that before we complete the firearms paper work, correct? So all that I will be out is a round trip ticket for the package, correct? Well, I guess that I will owe the gun shop something for their time too.

Thanks, Jim

Sounds like you already have it pretty well figured out. Find out from your local dealer what he requires as far as identification from the out of state seller, and what he plans to charge you for a transfer fee; anything from $25 to $100 nowadays.

As far as negotiating with a seller, it works just like it does face to face. Know what the value of what you're buying is and dicker from that. Ask for a 3 day return privilege, and don't deal with anyone who won't go along with that...Geo

The seller will need a copy of the FFL of the entity he is sending the gun to. Xerox will do, but the signature should be in ink. Your gunshop should be familiar with this.

If the gun that you are looking at was made pre-1898 then it is not a "gun" by FFL standards and may be purchased and shipped direct to you without an FFL Dealer being involved. You would normally have a three day "look-see" period in which to return the gun if it is not as described and therefore unwanted. Offers are "What the potential Buyer is willing to pay and what the potential Seller is willing to accept".

Best Regards, George

I am curious about the pre-1898 part of the law as it also mentions not being able to use currently obtainable ammunition. All the 12 guage cartridge lengths and loads are available for any 12 guage gun manufactured before 1898.Any thoughts?

corkdecoy,
After a bad experience on my first one,I always had any Gun I was buying long distance sent straight to a good Gunsmith (In my case, Abe Chaber)for a good checkout...I found the sellers willing to give me a couple extra days on the inspection time.
But I always got good pics & details..weight , stock dimentions etc...so knew I liked the Gun & it would fit me.
Saves some headaches if you're not able to measure bbl walls, chambers etc
Franc

18 USC 921 (a)(16). (A) any firearm (including any firearm with a matchlock, flintlock, percussion cap, or similar type of ignition system) manufactured in or before 1898; and (B) any replica of any firearm described in subparagraph (A) if such replica -- (i) is not designed or redesigned for using rimfire or conventional centerfire fixed ammunition, or (ii) uses rimfire or conventional centerfire fixed ammunition which is no longer manufactured in the United States and which is not readily available in the ordinary channels of commercial trade.

I have always understood the language to mean that any replica of a pre 1898 firearm would be considered modern if it took a modern cartridge. I think if you read this carefully you will get the same impression.The subsection (ii) is referring to guns mentioned in B.

The part I don't understand is the cartridge conversion cylinders for the replica BP revolvers so popular in SASS. You can buy the cap and ball revolver made by __________ (insert your favorite Italian name) from Midway, and on the same page buy the cartridge conversion cylinder that drops right in. It takes rounds readily manufactured in the US. I'm not complaining that someone has found a loop hole, but why do we all have to carry some form of a lisence, or incurr extra expense to receive a double made in the early teens? Does this law mean I can buy an 8 guage made in 1905 and have it shipped directly to me? 8 guage isn't manufactured by anyone in the US that I am aware of.

Wallis,

Your interpretation isn't correct.

You're stumbling over the IF/AND portion of the text.

Let me state it in non-legalese:

IF it is made before 1899, it is not a gun by interpretation of the Federal gun laws enforced by the BATF. Example: I have a 1898 made Lang & Hussey Sidelock Ejector that I am selling. That gun can be shipped to your door with no Federal paperwork and no FFL involved. (its a 12 gauge)

Next part of the law in 18 USC deals with replicas. If I have a colt dragoon pistol replica (percussion cap and ball) it is not a gun by this statute either because it does both of the following A.) replicates a pre 1899 gun, and B.) is not designed for modern ammunition. A+B are necessary for a replica to be "not a gun".

Now if I were to make a replica Lang & Hussey as a perfect clone of my 1898 ejector gun that shoots a 12 gauge shell, that WOULD BE a gun and WOULD BE subject to modern gun regulations. If it were not, you could argue that EVERY Spanish Best shotgun made from 1930 to today is a non-firearm. (they are all based on Holland and Holland lock patents, Anson and Deeley boxlocks, Anson forend plungers, etc. etc.) The point being, every modern double gun is a replica, it replicates a suite of patents that are all pre-1899. Obviously, they are all considered guns because they don't pass both tests: 1.) They are replicas, arguably, but 2.) they shoot a modern cartridge. (passing point 1 but failing point 2 makes the replica a gun subject to modern law)

Thanks. That explanation is what I needed to hear.