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Joined: Feb 2011
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Quikz28 Offline OP
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so recently i picked up this drilling, i believe it is german

the name on the barrel says A.Schuler.Ludwigshafen
is this a known maker of drillings?
its a SxS hammer gun with 16 gauge SxS shotgun and a 9x3m.. rifle underneath.

ill try to post pics up when i get a chance. im trying to find out what year it was made and how much it is worth?

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Quikz28 Offline OP
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here are a couple pics, sorry they are kinda blury



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the proof marks that are underneath the barrel include a N, S, U all with crowns over them, on each barrel there is Nitro Stamped into it, as well as various numbers underneath

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A nice one!
Schuler was a retailer probably, and his name is signed on a couple of other 'triplets'.
I would date it to the early 1900s but for more specific dating you would have to be less secretive about "various numbers".

With kind regards,
Jani

Last edited by montenegrin; 02/04/11 12:03 PM. Reason: wrong spelling
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ill try to get the numbers tomorrow

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I assume the NITRO stamp is script? Also I'll guess that there are the initials SS on the underside of the tubes of the Henri Roux type action. I'd say it was sourced from the Zella-Mehlis area, post 1911. If so, it will have a date stamp as well as a ledger number, a monthly number of proof noted by Axel E early on in his research. It should also have a pre-rifled diameter in mm. I remember a Schüler from that area but can't say if he was the same or related to August Schüler of Suhl.

Kind Regards,

Raimey

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A.Schuler (without Umlaut ü!), Ludwigstr.18 in Ludwigshafen was not related to the dozen or so Suhl Schülers (with Umlaut ü). Schuler was listed from 1879 as a wholeseller and retailshop for hunting arms, ammo and military smallarms. So he certainly did not make this hammer drilling, but bought it in from a specialised maker in Suhl or Zella-Mehlis for retail. The proofmarks, numbers and other markings may tell us more. The other drilling retailed by A.Schuler is here: http://www.doublegunshop.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=195753&page=2

Last edited by kuduae; 02/04/11 11:58 AM.
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I'm skeptical that this gun is circa 1911 considering it is a hammer gun, underlever with rebounding hammers.

I'm going to wager 1896-1906 on this one. Looking forward to the additional info and proof marks so we can better estimate it.

It looks like a great gun!

Raimey, isn't a Henri Roux action indicative of a rounded boxlock with internal hammers and an underlever? Whereas this gun appears to be a back-action hammergun with an underlever of a different sort. And what is the top lever used for on this gun?

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The Roux is a big can of worms that has been opened as of late and info indicates that it was an advancement by a Jacques Roux of Belgium( http://www.littlegun.info/arme%20belge/artisans%20identifies%20q%20r/a%20roux%20jacques%20gb.htm ) on the Lefaucheux locking. The the Purdey twin underbolt was added but the name remained. So in short, one would have to a quite old single lockin underlever for it to be a true J. Roux action. Perhaps Axel will spin the yarn for us.

Kind Regards

Raimey

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Rookhawk, the top lever on this triple gun is used as a barrel selector - shotgun vs. rifle.

With kind regards,
Jani

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Raimey already knows my answer to a similar question:
Now, to the term Rouxdrilling: None of these were designed by one of the two Rouxes! The monicker comes from a disdainable habit of German gunmakers and -dealers: In their catalogs they more often than not a break-open action is described only after the position and movement of the opening lever. They continued to use the name of the first one who had used such a lever, regardless of the lockup such a lever worked on. Their avarage customers only wanted to know how a gun handled, regarding strength of the lockup they relied on the words of their trusted gunsmith/dealer.
So every gun with the familiar toplever was described as a "Scottverschluss", wether the lever worked on W.M.Scott's spindle or another type of lockup.
Every side-swinging lever under the foreend was a "Lefaucheuxverschluss", even if it worked a Teschner/Collath slide-and tilt action.
A side-swinging lever around the triggerguard was a "Lancasterverschluss", though the real slide-and-tilt Lancaster action was virtually unknown. Even recently Norbert Klups stepped into this trap, set up more than 100 years ago by the German catalogs: In his book on double rifles he always misnames the familiar Jones action as "Lancasterverschluss"! (The French were not better: The 1896 MAS catalog calls the Jones action "Systeme Beringer"! Beringer's capping breechloaders used a seperate chamber turned sideways by an underlever around the triggerguard.) Sometimes this was even topped: both side-turning underlevers, the Lefaucheux- and the Lancaster-type, were often lumped together under "Excenterverschluss", albeit only the early slide-and-tilt actions used an excentrical cam.
Now to Roux: Jacques Roux, fabricant d'armes a Liege, in the 1850s patented an improvement to Lefaucheux' pinfire guns, which were inert actions to be closed by hand. Roux's design was the first snap-action gun to see widespread use. Roux locked his gun with a round underbolt, which went lengthwise into a round hole bored into the barrel lug. To open the gun this bolt was withdrawn against spring pressure by pushing forward a lever which was in front and partly over the triggerguard. In 1861 Roux' lockup was used by Francois Eugene Schneider/Paris and George Henry Daw/London on the first true centerfires to become known in England. In Germany the name "Rouxverschluss" was stuck on all actions which were opened by pushing down/forward an underlever. All the "Rouxdrillinge" I know are practically variations of Purdey's 1863 patent, 2nd variation: Double underbolts withdrawn by Roux's lever in front of the triggerguard, most of the time only with a doll's head as a top "fastener". By the way, the side-lever drillings, which are identical in all respects except lever shape to the so-called "Rouxdrillinge" were never called such.
Hoping to have cleaned up something
Axel

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