doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com unknown maker

Saw a sidexside damacus barreled 12gauge with the maker of J A Prechtel. Does anyone know anything about this maker? Gun probably made around 1900 give or take.

I finally was able to get a few pics of this gun. I do not know how to post pics. But someone was nice enogh to post pics at the Lefever Forum for me. Under Lefever firearms then under unmarked Lefever. This gun has no serial #s or patent dates on it but is withgout a doubt IMHO a beautiful piece of work. I will try to post pictures here but I am pretty much computer illiterate. If anyone looks at the pictures and has any comments I would like to read them. I think that it is a Lefever. Poss a lunchbox special. I really do not know and thought here would be the place to ask.

Send them to me and I'll post them for you.

John A. Prechtel was a gunsmith from Cleveland, Ohio circa 1890.

mjpetrov@acsalaska.net

I already had them uploaded to my photobucket account. Here they are:







Michael, do have any more information on J.A. Prechtel? Did he ever work for Lefever?

Pete

1900 Census,
PRECHTEL, JOHN A.
Age, 38
Born OH
CLEVELAND 1900
Gunsmith

Missing from the Ohio census for 1880.

PRECHTEL, JOHN A.
Age, 38
Born Ohio
CLEVELAND 1900
Gunsmith
Same for 1910.
Same for 1920 listed as gunmaker
Mother and father were from Germany
Sophia Wife
Son Walter
Missing from the Ohio census for 1880.



The Singer on the time board would have been Joseph Singer who by 1892(could have been earlier) was located in Los Angeles, California. So that would narrow it down somewhat. For what it’s worth there is not a single person with the name Prechter listed in the NY census for 1880.
I’m not a member of the Lefever board so please pass this on if you think it helpful.

One last thing than I'll get back to work.

There is another Lefever shotgun with an employees name on it, it's a hammer gun marked "A. O. Zischang"

For those that may not know:
A. O. Zischang was a master barrel maker who worked for Nichols & Lefever until 1879, when he opened his own shop in Syracuse.

It is my understanding that Bob Elliot has been contacted about the Prechtel gun. It will be interesting to hear his take on it.

Pete

Whats the "pin" for in the wrist near the safety?

The general design of this gun would denote a build date of ca 1885/86. It could of course have been assembled from left over parts much later.

Gorgeous gun. From the photos, however--and maybe it's camera angle--it looks like that gun would have at least 3" drop at heel.

Unfortunately, the 1890 US census was virtually destroyed in a Washington fire, with only about 1% of the census available. However, the 1880 US census shows an unmarried John Prechtel, born in 1862, listed as a blacksmith and living in Cleveland OH. Both parents listed as being from Prussia (this fits with the info provided by M. Petrov.)

So, the scenario goes as follows:

John Prechtel, 18-year-old bachelor blacksmith, decides that there may be more interesting forms of metalwork than banging out iron utensils or repairing wagon suspensions, and vows to give gunmaking a try. Sometime after 1880, but before 1900, young Mr. Prechtel arranges to apprentice with the well-known Daniel Myron Lefever of Syracuse NY (possibly through the auspices of other German immigrants?) After spending some indeterminent amount of time under Mr. Lefever's guidance, J. Prechtel is allowed to complete a firearm from "scratch" or nearly so, to demonstrate his proficiency in the craft and to become a Journeyman in Good Standing. Thereafter Prechtel, gun in hand, returns to Cleveland and sets up shop on his own.

It would be great to find some sort of Syracuse documentation for Prechtel, although I think the (mispelled) time board is pretty good evidence.

Hats off to Michael Petrov for the detective work!

[I posted this in response to a similar thread over at http://lefeverforum.informe.com that utilized MP's research as found in this thread]

Larry
I think that this could be easily worked out with copies of the Syracuse, NY city directories for the year(s) in question. You can get them from your local LDS research center for about the price of the postage (that’s how it works in Alaska). With all the folks interested in Lefever guns I’m surprised that all the employees have not been identified. While you’re looking see if you can find A.P. Kessel a stockmaker who worked for William Schaefer in Boston and whose name has been reported found under the pistol grip cap of Lefevers.

“ If A. O. Zischang could build himself a gun while working for Lefever and then go on to bigger and (presumably) better things in the gunmaking biz, then why not J.A. Prechtel?”

Please keep in mind that I have only see pictures of the Zischang marked shotgun and have not handled it. I would be very surprised to learn that Zischang built this shotgun. I would (no disrespect to LeFever owners) expect something from his hands to, well, shine.

If the present owner of the Zischang-Lefever would post some pictures of the gun I think it would be interesting to all.

MP, a quick scan of "J", "J.A.", "John" or "John A" Prechtel at LDS website shows no hits for Syracuse NY between 1880-1900. However, don't the city directories usually only list head of households and the inhabitants thereof? Would a bachelor apprentice be listed in the directories (assuming that is what he was?) He could have been a border in town or even living with an employee of LAC. Would that have made it into the directory?

Don't know you need to look, I’ve never looked at a Syracuse, NY directory however they normally list people and businesses. Look at “Plank”.


http://www.ausbcomp.com/~bbott/winfield/City1880/1880-036.jpg
http://www.ausbcomp.com/~bbott/winfield/City1880/1880-026.jpg

In this directory even the servants are listed.


If this were my project I would look at the Cleveland directories find out when Prechtel arrived as a gunsmith then go to the old newspaper files and see if there is a story about his new business with his background history. Next would be to find his obituary, that should also list a Lefever connection if there was one. Joseph Singer’s does.


Correct obit below,

Ok, if he 38 in 1900, he was born in 1862. In 1880, he was 18.

http://www.familysearch.org/Eng/search/C...amp;frompage=99

John PRECHTEL
Male
Other Information:
Birth Year <1862>
Birthplace OH
Age 18
Occupation Blacksmith
Marital Status S <Single>
Race W <White>
Head of Household Michael PRECHTEL
Relation Son
Father's Birthplace PRUS
Mother's Birthplace PRUS
Source Information:
Census Place Cleveland, Cuyahoga, Ohio
Family History Library Film 1255007
NA Film Number T9-1007
Page Number 161A

His father:
Michael PRECHTEL
Male
Other Information:
Birth Year <1831>
Birthplace PRUS
Age 49
Occupation Laborer
Marital Status M <Married>
Race W <White>
Head of Household Michael PRECHTEL
Relation Self
Father's Birthplace PRUS
Mother's Birthplace PRUS
Source Information:
Census Place Cleveland, Cuyahoga, Ohio
Family History Library Film 1255007
NA Film Number T9-1007
Page Number 161A


Cemetery records for Cleveland
http://dxsrv4.cpl.org/WebZ/QUERY?sessionid=01-3480-1634259571

Id#: 0283279
Name: Prechtel, John A.
Date: 1928
Source: Cemetery record; Cleveland Necrology File, Reel #065.
Notes: Age 65. Monroe Cemetery Cleveland, Ohio.

Now the trick is to find him in Syracuse...

Pete

Pete,

Good information,less than a days work and and a lot of information on a man, it seems before yesterday, no one was aware of.

To all,
This might be the next step in the trail, from Walter’s obit you can locate living relatives. You need to be very careful of what you say and how you act. I learned this the hard way when I told a seventy year old man his sister was dead, a sister he did not even know he had. Go slow and have the FACTS before contacting family members.

Walter PRECHTEL
Birth Date: 12 Jul 1919
Death Date: Oct 1970
Social Security Number: 294-10-7766
State or Territory Where Number Was Issued: Ohio
Death Residence Localities
ZIP Code: 44145
Localities: Cleveland, Cuyahoga, Ohio
Westlake, Cuyahoga, Ohio



The owner of the gun lives in Cleveland, the man looking for info lives in Cleveland, the ball is in your court. I’m off the case now. Looking forward to hearing how all this turns out.

OK, OK one more then I have to go ;-) Cleveland city directory for 1887-88