doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com Super Fox indentification

I have a tip on a Fox for sale that may be a Superfox. It is at a considerable distance from me so I can't go see it. The proposed price makes it worth taking a chance. Can someone tell me if there is a clear and consistent stamp or other identifying mark that would show in photos?

Regards,

James

H on the action water table, 2.40 inch width at breech balls. However, a few legitimate H Grades were made on the standard frame, which is smaller. Engraving pattern similar to early A Grade. The serial number will help. Give us a number and we'll give you some help. Some H Grades have the message "Barrels not guaranteed, see tag." stamped on the barrel flats. Some do not have this message.

Thanks eightbore. I knew about the H on the water table and the standard HE engraving pattern. Also about the BARRELS NOT GUARANTEED stamp.

Didn't know about the 2.40 width at the breech or how consistent the above indicators were or that some were built on the standard frame.

Would weight be a key indicator? I understand the 12 gauges should be between 8 3/4 lb and 9 3/4 lb. How heavy do standard A grades get. I've got two A grades, a 7.5 lb from 1908 and a 7.2 lb from 1909.

Do they all have the H or are there any exceptions. The guy who mentioned it to me thought there was some kind of unique Superfox buttplate. I didn't notice anything about buttplates in MM's book on Foxes.

There is no unique Super-Fox butt plate. The only Fox I know of to have a unique butt plate are some of the Savage-era SP-/SPE-Grades that have a rounded widows-peak butt plate.

Thanks again Researcher and Eightbore. I think it unlikely that it is a SuperFox, but you never know. Have to check it out. Should get some pics in a day or so and we'll know more then.

To add to the previous excellent replies... most Super Foxes built on the heavy 0-frame will measure about 2.440" across the breech balls (fences). That width would be the average of measurements, with a small range of variation plus/minus.

With that said I've owned and seen a very small number of genuine Super Foxes built on the regular size 12 gauge frame (approx 2.350" across the breech balls). It seems the regular frame was used when the SF was ordered "light". All these regular size guns carded as HE grades, and had the H stamp on the water table and the barrel flats. I have some data to support that the regular frame size Supers were made with a heat treated alloy steel. Rockwell test measurements show significantly higher C-scale numbers than regular run of the mill 12 gauge Chromox frames.

Do all Supers have the H stamps on the water table and barrel flats? Answer: virtually all do, but I wouldn't say 100% or always. The gun's serial number, corresponding production card data, and physical measurements are proof positive. Incidentally the "H" stamping seems to be a proprietary font and special height made for Fox-Philly and Savage. A hardware store or industrial supply outfit's H die stamp will likely be the wrong size and definitely the wrong font. Silvers

The previous poster, a Fox Collectors Association Director, in possession of a DVD that includes the serial number information of all Super Foxes included in the Savage Arms Company files, chose not to tell you that you could provenance the gun in question by posting its serial number. In fact, the poster before that poster, also a Fox Collectors Association Director in possession of the DVD that includes Super Fox serial numbers, chose not to give you that information either. I am not a Fox Collectors Association Director, but I did give you that information. Post your serial number and you will get some assistance.

Thanks all. Got some photos emailed....its clearly not a Superfox. Had to follow up on the tip, though.

Regards,

James

Sorry I diverted my replies from the original question, but I think I'll let them stand as stated. Good luck with your Fox.

Good on you Mr. Bill !!!