doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com British auction issues

It's information we couldn't get anywhere else but here, Bill. From people we know.

There is plenty of worked over, tarted up crap here for sale. Why would you need to go overseas to buy it.


John Boyd

It has been pointed out to me by another reader of this sight ,that the auction rooms have been the place a lot of the trade in the UK gets rid of its tat, stuff they can not sell in the shop. As the auctioneers are frequently calling trying to get stuff to go in the sales ,guess what they get?

Yep can definately see that. The stuff they can't shift....hmm

Toby, thank you very much for our thoughtful answer. I spent many years as a dealer in antiquarian books (pre-1650) and maps. I used the auction houses to dispose of the dogs that eventually found their way into my inventory. Nothing unethical about that - I couldn't sell them but someone else wanted them. It is a common fallacy made by many people that auctions are the place to get bargains. Yes, they sometimes show up, and every once in a great while something escapes the notice of every dealer and expert who has pawed over the lots.

Anyway, thank you again for your response and I may get in touch with you privately regarding my desiderata. I get to London about twice a year but never when the gun sales are on!

Good post from Toby.

Mike, I recall that gun. It amazes me how many dealers overseas will buy guns at auction based on a cursory glance at a photo in a catalogue and (maybe) a chat with the auction house.

Auctions are full of guns with a lot wrong with them. Only a proper inspection will reveal what is needed and what it will cost in relation to what the restored gun will be worth.

You can buy good deals at auctions but they are hidden in piles of less good deals and it is easier to get burned than get a bargain.

If you are in the room, know your guns and experienced in spotting issues, you have a chance. If not, you are playing Russian roulette. It is not that hard to work out. If it was that easy to buy total bargains from auction overseas, everyone would be doing it.

Unfortunaately, as another poster said, many overseas dealers are buying in ignorance and selling on for a profit to the more ignorant.

If you are contemplating buying a £10,000 shotgun from an auction, why skimp on paying someone £50 to tell you in advance what is good and bad about it. If the news is good, you can bid in confidence and hopefully get something for a good price, if not, leave well alone. In either case, you got your money's worth.

Gun auctions in the UK are 'sold as seen'. End of. You don't see it, your problem. Those are the terms of sale. Descriptions are brief as they cannot then be said to have lied.

I have paid the inspection fee for several guns that I did not bid on. If I had not paid the price I would have most likely bought and been very unhappy. Each gun had several real major problems that would have made them a money pit which we all need to avoid. All were honestly described, well photographed and each had major flaws which would have cost more than the top bid price to fix. Win a gun for 1K, drop another 1K into repairs and then pay to have it shipped for 500 more. Your steal of a deal becomes a over priced gun that you will be lucky to ever get your money out of.

What are the real odds that you can buy a gun based on a internet photo, a fifty word or less description from the auction house and find a better value than a person in the room? Less than slim. The bargains, if they even exist, will be bought by those right there. You can tell the real value of a gun only in person and then if you have spent years evaluating guns and spotting flaws. Not very likely to happen over the net.

What you will end up doing, if you are not real careful, is over pay for guns with minor to major flaws that will only be found when you take delivery. Then waiting for months to get them fixed in the States. In general I have found it pays to get them fixed over there. More "good" smiths to fix the guns and the cost has been less than it would have cost here.

Toby,
I regards to the caustic blueing issue. When I see barrel flats black over, or a "too" shiny finish over pitting, or a purple tint, I start looking harder. At this point I typically find completely blacked bores, lumps blacked on the narrow side etc. All of this points to caustic treatment of the barrels. Many are not yet shot mind you. If I get no air escaping when the barrels are dunked in a tank of hot water, I simply take extra care to clean things up, then finish properly. If the solder is shot, it's either relay ribs or scrap them, depending on value.
My point is that many of these signs are relatively easy to spot, and that I've seen a good bit more of this than you seem to expect as the norm.
Jim