doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com Greenhorn Muzzle Load Question

Hi folks, forgive me in advance, but I'm new to this muzzle loading shenanigans. I've restored my super little Westley Ricards and now want to fire it. I have my black powder licence and have purchased some swiss number 3 powder.

Now, I'm not entirely sure what goes where...I've been sold two difference sized card discs as well as fibre wads and shot as well as the powder of course.

I attach picture 1!



Forgive my amateur artwork. The powder is first down the barrel. Then the wad, then the shot, then what? One of those two cards? Why have I been sold two card types one thicker than the other?

That's my first question...is the order correct or am I doing something wrong?

Second question!

I've got both a powder flask AND a powder measuring tool to fill philes. The flask has options from 2 1/2 to 3 1/4 drams. But the measuring tool has somethin from what appears to be 01 to 120!! Pictures below.

Both in this picture;



Powder Flask;



...and Powder tool;



I've heard but wanted to verify that I should just use 2 1/2 drams to start with and see how that goes. Does anyone concur? Also what are the measurements on the tool with the sliding adjuster going to 120 (what measurement is that?).

FINALLY!

How much shot would people recommend I think I have a shot flask that has 1 1/4 and 1 1/2 of something as options...is that drams too?

Thanks so much in advance for any answers!

Regards,

Tony

A dram is 27.34 grains. The markings on you powder measure is in grains up to 120 grains. Your 2 1/2 drams is about 68.25 grains of powder. Or slightly less, you can do the math. The heavy card is an over-powder wad, the light card is the over-shot wad. It goes powder, over-powder wad, wad, shot, over-shot wad. The thick card is to keep powder from getting moist from the felt wadding.

The shot flask is in ounces.

I'd be starting at a basic load of shot of about 7/8 of an ounce just to see how it goes.

Okay, black powder is always measured by volume instead of weight. You could use both of those powder measures but you will need something to measure your shot with also. Most shot pouches can be adjusted according and initially you should make the powder charge equal to the shot charge using the same volume. In other words and for example 2 ½ drams of powder and then add 2 ½ drams of shot to keep it equal by volume NOT weight. Your gun is older I would take it easy on the charge you put in it.

The thinnest card goes over the shot, don’t worry it will hold. The thicker card can either be used in conjunction with the cushioning (fiber) wad or alone by itself directly over the powder. In my loads I dispense with that hard thicker card and only use the fiber cushioning wad over the powder, then the shot and then an overshot wad, again, that real thin one. My shotgun just patterns better with that combination but you will have to experiment also to see how your shotgun patterns.

Be careful, keep your face and as much of your hands away from the business end of those barrels as much as possible. Half cock the hammers to allow some of the air to escape while you are pushing those wads down those barrels. The wadding is usually very easy to push down a barrel if the barrels aren’t badly pitted.

Loading a rifle is dangerous enough but a double barreled shotgun is in a league all by itself and I swear sometimes you can see the devil himself staring back up at you while you are loading those barrels.

Everything is done by volume. With one dipper you can measure both powder and shot.



You can also find old patch cutters so you can cut your own wads.



You have already been given good advice. Mop the bore, make sure there is no percussion cap on the nipple. I load powder, wad, shot and over shot card.

This is not rapid fire and you are going to welcome that, because those barrels can get very hot.

Pete

I'm not a muzzleloader guy, but I do load brass shotshells and everything goes in the same order and the principles are the same. The powder flask reads in drams and the measure in grains. You can find a conversion chart for drams of black powder to grains, but if you use the flask, you won't need to. If the gun is a 12 ga or larger, FFG (number 2?)might be a little more appropriate, but FFFG (number 3?) will work, at least if you load light loads (2 1/2 drams in a 10 or 12 ga). The shot measures in ounces. Start off with 1 ounce. I would load, powder, over powder wad (the thick card wad for better sealing), then the thick filler wad. After loading the shot, use the thin over shot card wad. This wad should fit as tightly as possible, so the shot doesn't roll out the end of the barrel while you're carring the gun afield or when you fire the first barrel in a double barreled gun. Hopes this helps some. Bill Frech

Hi 999
You are in for a bit of fun. The above advice is all first class as long as your gun is a 12 bore - different rules apply if you have something different - seek advice if it is.
If you are new to the game there are a few safety rules you need to bear in mind.
Firstly ALWAYS wear safety glasses.
Check the gun is not already loaded - just compare the depth of the barrel inside and out using the ram rod – a double load can be a memorable experience!!! And it is not unknown for a muzzle loader to be left loaded – certainly not recomended.
Second you will need to 'cap off' before you load the gun ie fire a percussion cap on an empty gun to remove oil etc.
Always remember that once you have fired the gun there could be smouldering embers down the barrel. The powder flask you have has a flash protection gate to hopefully stop it tuning into a hand grenade if this occurs, but always pour the powder in with the gun tilted away from you. The technique with the flask is to place your finger over the spout of the upturned flask, operate the gate with the thumb and give it a little shake, let go of the thumb press and turn the flask up the right way. The measure nozzle should then be full and the flash protector closed. It is now safe to pour it in the barrel.
If you have a double barrelled gun always load one barrel at a time and cover the other with your thumb – again to prevent double load.
You will attract attention and people will want to chat while you are loading – concentrate!!! – it is so easy to get distracted. Never take a chance – if you loose track unload the gun and start again.
If you are going to fire the gun straight away then I just use the oily felt wad but if you are going to be delayed such as on a game day always use an over powder wad to stop the oil soaking into the powder.
So great - you are ready to go – boom – smoke – broken clay and then you get a misfire!!!
Bit of a problem – you can’t just wait 30 seconds and take out the dud cartridge. Black powder can be prone to ‘hang fires’ where there is a delay before it fires so be very aware of this.
First thing to do is keep it pointing at the sky.
Try a couple more caps after checking the nipple is clear – you can get a purpose made ‘pricker’ for this or a paperclip will do. If still no joy then the flash is not reaching the powder for some reason. It is usually a bit of oil or wet got in the nipple and the flash is only making contact with wet powder – assuming you remembered to put the powder in the first place!!
I am not sure if this is standard practice in the event of a miss fire but after a suitable length of time I unscrew the nipple and from a small flask, with fine powder in, I pour a small quantity into the nipple chamber. This will reinforce the flash and the gun will almost always go off – but be careful!! After a couple of goes with this you will usually find there is enough pop to push the wad and shot out of the barrel and you can start again, making sure there is no residual powder left in the barrel.
You will probably find that under the cap of your ram rod there is a worm screw – this is for unloading a miss fired gun as a last resort. I have to say I have never been comfortable poking around down the barrel of a loaded gun, I value my fingers too much so I have always managed to avoid this.
I am sure you will get more advice from others more experienced in miss fire incidents!!!!!
One last word – clean your gun well but make sure you get it dry after pouring the water down to dissolve the residues. Dampness left in the barrel or nipple chamber will destroy your gun in a very short time – again I am sure others will give their thoughts on the best way to clean black powder guns.
Best of luck and have some fun!! I just hope you wont need the 999.
John

Guys really appreciate the info. Much appreciated. After your post John I'm almost apprehensive to even have a go! . When the barrels are cleaned..I've heard warm soapy water is the thing...do you take the cap blocks off at the end or leave them on? They are hugely tight and I don't want to have to take them off after each fire...but I will if it is the done thing.

Thanks again. It is a twelve guage by the way.

T

I have been doing it for years – still have all my fingers and eyes – no hair though!!
Just a couple of more things which may make your ML shooting more enjoyable.
Get a nipple key! You will need to remove the nipple to clean and dry your gun properly and it is the right tool for the job. Grease the threads on the nipple – a ceased nipple is a load of hassle.
If you are doing a lot of shooting make a better ram rod – mine is made out of dowel and a wooden ball about the size of a cricket ball. I have marked it with rings at the depth of the empty barrel and the charged barrel as a safety measure.
Whenever you are shooting cover up your percussion caps and powder if you are using a bowl and dipper. It can be quite distracting if a spark drops into either!!!
Here are a couple of photos, the stills are both breach loaders but they are shooting black powder, the small one is my 14 bore Perrins and the punt gun takes 19oz of shot!! You need the sound on for the video clip – the guy had never seen a ML gun before let alone fired one – Great!
You aren’t a million miles away so if you are worried then send me a PM and I will give you all the help I can.
John
click on this first photo to see the video clip - sound on!

Hi John, tremendous...give me a pm with your location...we should get together.

T

Very few things have an absolute "Only" way of doing it. I acquired a ML'ing Shotgun in the mid 60's & used it a considerable amount for rabbit hunting with Beagles. I always had it poiled between uses & bagan by swabing out the oil & snapping a few caps prior to loading. After several misfires on the first shot, from not geting immediate action I tried other methods. What I settled on was swabing out the bores with alchol & being sure it had time to totally evaporate & that some squirted through the nipples. After that I never dry snapped a cap again & never had another first shot misfire. Cap residue will sometimes clog the nipple & is worse on a dry fire as there is no back pressure to clear it. Use what works though & what you are comfortable with, but this has been my preferred method for either my shotgun or cap-lock long rifle. If I know I'm going hunting "Tomorrow", I do the alcohol swab "Tonight" & stand it muzzle down to drain out overnight. So far has worked every time.