doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com Hunter One Trigger

My "new" Specialty Grade L.C. Smith is performing like a champ and nails box birds with authority as far away as it matters. Thus far, its ignition system, a rear positioned Hunter One, has performed flawlessly. Naturally, I have heard and read the conventional wisdom that the triggers are an abomination. Anyone have any practical experience with the system? I might consider converting it to double triggers (it really does shoot well), but if this system really functions, then why change?

Just dont change the selector and enjoy it. I havent had any misfires with mine (a 3E ST AE with chain damascus).

I have a gun with the same setup. Never had a problem with the trigger. I've changed the barrels selection a few times with no problems. I've had the gun apart to examine the trigger and refinish the stock. I have to say it looks like parts of an enlarged Swiss watch that were copied by Belgian gunmakers.

If it works, it will likely keep working, particularly if you don't use the "selective" feature. If it is broken, it will likely be trouble from now on. There is not much "room in the middle" and men who can fix'em are mostly departed. I know several quite competent double gun smiths who won't touch one with a 10-foot pole. I have two that work great and two others that are an abomination. mike

When I looked at the works of this trigger, it struck me that it needed to be clean to function properly. A guy might be well served to immerse the entire triggerplate and trigger in an ultrasonic cleaner with mineral spirits in it once in a while. I doubt that anything really changes in the trigger other than dirt/rust.

Not all factory Smith single triggers are the post 1903 "Hunter One Trigger". Only the final evolution is the One Trigger and is always marked Hunter One Trigger. The H.O.T. is usually (and mistakenly) credited to golf enthusiast Allen Lard. I am of the opinion that Thorneley deserves the lions share of credit for the HOT. Lards patents faded into obscurity, while Thorneley's contribution went on to effect nearly every successful single trigger design to this day. I have three single trigger Smiths and all work well without any balking or doubling. Usually when someone complains about the woes of single triggers, the very next words out of thier mouth is "do you want to sell it?"...May I suggest that you keep your Smith original and leave the single trigger intact. There is only one other design of single trigger mechanism found on Smiths that is better than the factory Thorneley/Lard HOTs and that the KING of all single trigger mechanisms...the venerable Infallable Trigger. It was an after market trigger produced by Lancaster Arms (Lancaster Pa.) and patented by Alfred Worrest. And yes, the Infallable is also based on Thorneley's design.

I just mailed a check to pay for the engraving on the trigger plate on my Crown Grade. Someone "fixed" the HOT by repalcing it with the triggers and trigger plate from a Field. I'm happy to have the double triggers as this will be my Clays gun. Wasn't happy to spend the money to fix something that probably wasn't broken.
I have a Trap Grade with HOT that I shot about 4-5000 rounds through in the last year. It doubled once. That was because I moved the selector. If I were you I'd just keep shooting.

Well I'm sorry to report that I have an extra Crown Grade trigger strap with an Infallable trigger already installed..

Robert, Wish I had Known. Of course that wasn't the only engraving. Some wayward soul with a buffing wheel had been unkind to the barrel engraving too. I only have one Infallable trigger gun. Will an Infallable stand up to the volume of clay shooting as well as a Miller?

My old side by side friends always told me that the infallable was a POS and only Miller worked well. I have never had an Infallable so I can't give personel experience but I own several guns with Miller Triggers and they work perfect. I donated my Skeet Special with a Lard patent trigger to a museum, dangerous!
bill

There are at least seven different Miller trigger designs plus the Ithaca copies. Not all work equally well, hense the evolution of that trigger mechanism. More than any other single trigger design, if a problem develops with an Infallable, chances are it's operator head space. The Infallable can not be tricked into balking or doubling no matter how hard you try. Even out of the gun, in your hand, you can not trick it out of proper sequence, right first or left first. Thats not to say that you can't fit the sears so delicately that the gun won't double. Have you ever examined how robust and ingenious an Infallable is? Now, I like a Miller trigger (designs 5 & 6 only), but it looks as though it was fashioned from a bent tuna can and a couple of paper clips where an Infallable looks as though a team of German Elf machinists stayed up all night just to produce the "one" perfect mechanism. In my opinion the only advantage a Miller has, that it requires less removal of precious wood to fit it. Over the years I have tried to examine as many of the 150+ ST designs that predate WW II (the area of collecting that interests me)and unforntunatly I must agree with the other single trigger smiths, the Infallable/Worrest trigger is the KING. It's too bad the tremendous machining costs associated with that mechanism led to it's demise. I would love to see a pre-war ST that is a more dependable design ...American or foriegn.

If you compare the two triggers, Lard's and Millers, I'll take the Miller's any day. Lard's is a nightmare ready to happen. If any of those springs lose some tension from age, etc, anything can happen, double fire etc.
Lard's Hunter One-Trigger

Miller's One Trigger

Which one do you think is less likely to go wrong.
Also Hunter Arms put Hunter One-Trigger iln a few ways.


In my opinion the early Miller one trigger selector was the easiest and best to operate, compared to Lard's alongside the trigger, not very user friendly.

Wow...you guys sre really up on your ST mechanisms...I still haven't figured out how to post photos yet...perhaps someone could explain how, or I can email photos to someone who knows how. I think I can send pics of at least 4 different Hunter Arms single trigger designs...two Lard/Thorneley based, and two Jarred (?)...Then I have the LC Crown with the Infallable...and yet another factory Smith trigger that predates Lards association with LC Smith (pre-1899), but I'm not sure of the design as I have never cracked that particular gun open.... Also ...strange as it may sound, I have a factory Remington mdl 1894 ST that is unmistakably a Lard Design...Oh yeah don't forget the Curtiss ST...

In looking at old single trigger patents, it seems a lot of inventors were set on doing a trigger for the big boys -- Remington Arms Co.'s Hammerless Double. Four by G.E. Witherell; two by E.H. Thorneley; two by E.D. Fulford; and three by Charles E. De Long. Bet they all felt bad when Remington dumped the doubles in favor of making real money with J.M. Brownings Autoloading Gun!!!

Sometime back, someone emailed me these pictures of what appears to be a Lard trigger on a triggerplate for a Remington Hammerless Double --

Robert, I PM'd you about posting pictures. David

TTT

This subject needs more attention. I traded an AH Fox AE with what was supposed to be a Miller single trigger. While I am a fanatic about rifle triggers, shotgun trigger pulls aren't that important to me as long as they aren't over 5-6 lbs. The current owner was watching this thread and maybe he can post some pictures.

JDW..when I saw your post, I realized the my email address has since changed...so I changed my profile to reflect the correct email...anyway I didn't get the message yet...or, if you would send it again to robertchambers@adelphia.net..who is the preferred hosting company? Is is best to pay an image host? Thanks for your help...I think the photos will be worth your time, as I have triggers that very few have seen...Jerrod, Flues, Syracuse..others...

Robert,

http://www.photobucket.com

Very easy to use and free. No reason to pay for photo hosting.

Robert, I PM'd you again about posting pictures. Also like Mike (Utah Shotgunner) said, it's free and easy.

ok I guess that I don't get PMs...but that's ok, now that Utah said "photobucket" (thanx Utah)...I'm sorta figuring it out anyway...this pic is not the Infallable of course, just the only photo that I had ready to go...my camera is on loan again ...I haven't figured out how to reduce the image yet, this is only a test, so I hope I can edit this if being oversize tosses a shoe into the machinery and stalls the thread or somthing...no one mentioned any pitfalls...so here goes...

That worked fine. I might point out that under each photo in Photbucket there are three choices. Click on the bottom one and it will say it is copied. That is the one they designed for sites like this. Then go to the reply box here and press control v at the same time and the info will be deposited. Hit Enter once or twice to get a little space and add another photo. Two or three are plenty for each Reply box. Don't forget to hit submit button on the bottom of the reply box. If you want to add more pictures just add another reply using the same technique.

JDW, ok, other than the image is too large, it's fairly easy. I'll get my camera tonight and post photos of three other Smith triggers.

Of course the one trigger is off the Fulton Special, the other appears to be from some factory experimental frame that utilized two extra screws as opposed to the ears normally found on a Fulton floorplate. Jerrod had the rest of that gun, but I was unable to acquire it at the time...perhaps it's now available...Oh Yeah...builder, thanx for the pointers...I can't even remember what I mistakenly thought was difficult

You mean 3 by Fulford ...It is interesting that you too wondered or assumed that because they were designed around, or perhaps simply drawn on the Rem 1894 action, that there has to be more to this. It's easy to see how their design might get the attention of Remington designers. At least from this long distance perspective, it looks like they were flat out courtin' Remington with their designs, but so far I have found nothing tangible to connect Fulford or De Long to Remington in any way (or Fulford's assignors)...but I did get to troubleshoot (clean and time) a Fulford trigger on a 94 like the one shown in 971979, so at least Fulford's design did see some degree of (aftermarket) production...But make no mistake, the death knell for the Remington double shotgun was the Flues model Ithaca...I haven't checked the production numbers in years, but If I remember right, all the top producers were forced to reckon with Ithaca's taking of lion's share of the US market...Parker responded with the Trojan, Fox with the Sterlingworth, Smith with the Fulton, and Remington with no more double production.
Allthough I can't connect DeLong or Fulford to Remington, and I can't connect Giddings either, something tells me that Giddings (of Ilion) could not have learned his craft at any other anvil other than Remington...Now those would be the guns to find.