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#194937 - 07/08/10 02:48 PM Re: Help me identify more about my drilling [Re: Rookhawk]
Rookhawk Offline
Sidelock
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Registered: 07/07/10
Posts: 707
Another update - chamber information. (this keeps getting weirder)

So the current theory is that the cartridge is approximately .300 / 8mm based on the proof marks. It was also marked either 58 or 68 under that proof making some believe that was the cartridge's length. 68mm = 1.72", 58mm=1.473". Neither really match up to the information I've received from the measurements taken with a dial caliper.

Based on measurements of the chamber:

The cartridge's rim is .500"
The base of the cartidge after the rim is about .434" wide.
5/8" into the chamber, the cartridge is about .415" wide.
At 2.3" into the chamber, there is a constriction that is either a really tiny shoulder or it is the lams, I can't tell.
The bore at muzzle is measuring .316 to .325 depending how I measure but this is a fuzzy number.

What kind of cartridge existed in 1911 that was rimmed, about 2.3" long (or longer) and had a tapered description such as this? Upon further review there is no taper/shoulder or reduced neck on this cartridge at all. It is a straight walled cartridge that gradually tapers down to the bore size. I've yet to find a metric cartridge that was built like this during that period of history.


Edited by Rookhawk (07/08/10 07:50 PM)

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#194951 - 07/08/10 04:57 PM Re: Help me identify more about my drilling [Re: Rookhawk]
ellenbr Offline
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Registered: 08/10/07
Posts: 8657
Loc: North Alabama


Lebeda is the only name I can think of right off but I don't know of a C. Lebeda. Also it has a Bavarian or Austrian style cheekpiece.



Note the side of the scattergun tubes have the post September, 1911 "Eagle Nitro" stamp. Evidently they were applying the "Nitro" stamp a bit earlier and still using the plug gauge post 1910.





Interesting device in the dolls head well. Just pour some wax in it and make a cast. I'd 1st compare it to he 8x58 Sauer but the cast will narrow the field.

Kind Regards,

Raimey
rse



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#194959 - 07/08/10 06:00 PM Re: Help me identify more about my drilling [Re: ellenbr]
montenegrin Offline
Sidelock
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Registered: 04/12/05
Posts: 1678
Loc: Slovenia
The town could be present Ukrainian Lviv (Lwow) which was called LEMBERG from 18th century till 1918 when it was a part of Austria (Austria-Hungary).
A wild guess for the dealer's name could be Lebed or Lebedev, but there are surely many other possibilities (including Lebeda of course).
With kind regards,
Jani


Edited by montenegrin (07/08/10 06:20 PM)

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#194967 - 07/08/10 07:40 PM Re: Help me identify more about my drilling [Re: montenegrin]
Geno Offline
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Registered: 01/03/02
Posts: 3774
Loc: St.Petersburg/Russia
Never heard of C.Lebed, C.Lebedev or C.Lebeda or anybody else from Lemberg. I feel it was somebody from small German town wink

RookHawk, most probably 30L means 30Left - some part from left side of the box and it might be the same shape part from the right. Pair parts of English guns marked R and L in this case.
_________________________
Geno.

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#194969 - 07/08/10 07:43 PM Re: Help me identify more about my drilling [Re: Geno]
ellenbr Offline
Sidelock
***

Registered: 08/10/07
Posts: 8657
Loc: North Alabama
Jani:
I think that's a swell start.

Geno:

Were you born in Lemberg or spent holidays there?

Kind Regards,

Raimey
rse

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#194983 - 07/08/10 08:43 PM Re: Help me identify more about my drilling [Re: ellenbr]
Geno Offline
Sidelock
***

Registered: 01/03/02
Posts: 3774
Loc: St.Petersburg/Russia
Raimey, I was there twice. Nice city and girls over there wink
All gun related people in this area were well documented in J.Shokarev book.

There is Schömberg in Germany. Try this wink
Spremberg also.
_________________________
Geno.

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#194987 - 07/08/10 08:53 PM Re: Help me identify more about my drilling [Re: Geno]
ellenbr Offline
Sidelock
***

Registered: 08/10/07
Posts: 8657
Loc: North Alabama
Where can a copy, or translated copy, of Shokarev's text be acquired?

Kind Regards,

Raimey
rse

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#194990 - 07/08/10 09:06 PM Re: Help me identify more about my drilling [Re: ellenbr]
Geno Offline
Sidelock
***

Registered: 01/03/02
Posts: 3774
Loc: St.Petersburg/Russia
This book is in Russian only as soon as I know.
http://www.bookland.ru/book2836247.htm
ISBN: 5-87624-055-9
_________________________
Geno.

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#194996 - 07/08/10 09:25 PM Re: Help me identify more about my drilling [Re: ellenbr]
Rookhawk Offline
Sidelock
**

Registered: 07/07/10
Posts: 707
You guys have been just terrific. Thank you so much for your help finding out the history of this drilling.

I was checking through German town names that end in "MBERG" and I didn't really find that many. I would think a gun of this detail and quality would be sold out of a larger city instead of a small village, further limiting the options.

Would Nuremberg be a likely origin? Bamberg?

Incidentally, I looked at the 2nd word with a 10x jeweler's loop and it definitely says "C. LEBxxxx". The third word's letter preceding the MBERG could be an A but there is only 5% of the letter remaining.

Can we limit the possible locations of the manufacturer based on where the gun was ultimately proofed? (I assume guns were proofed at the nearest government office?)

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#195016 - 07/09/10 03:32 AM Re: Help me identify more about my drilling [Re: Rookhawk]
montenegrin Offline
Sidelock
***

Registered: 04/12/05
Posts: 1678
Loc: Slovenia
German spelling for Nuremberg is Nürnberg so this Bavarian city is not a likely candidate.
With kind regards,
Jani

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