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#19311 - 01/09/07 06:04 PM Who made Paradox type guns?
dearmer Offline
Boxlock

Registered: 12/31/06
Posts: 8
Just curious who manafactured guns of the paradox type? A few I know of are:
Westley Richards- Explora and Fauneta
H&H- Paradox
Lancaster- Colindian
Cogswell and Harrison- Cosmos
Rigby- Ball and Shot?

Are there any others?

Thanks,
Josh

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#19317 - 01/09/07 06:54 PM Re: Who made Paradox type guns? [Re: dearmer]
SKB Offline
Sidelock
**

Registered: 12/31/01
Posts: 4953
Loc: Colorado
william evans made some. I have a very nice 12 bore super magnum made up by them. Holland style rachet chokes.
Steve
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ACGG Professional metalsmith, firearms import services.

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#19319 - 01/09/07 06:57 PM Re: Who made Paradox type guns? [Re: SKB]
fishdock Offline
Sidelock
**

Registered: 01/30/05
Posts: 146
Loc: Florida
May I ask a not to well informed question seing as the subject of paradox guns has been raised?

What happens when shot is fired through a paradox barrel? Does it spray all over the place? Or is the effect dependent on the size of the shot?

And what is polygon rifling? If there is such a thing.

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#19321 - 01/09/07 07:35 PM Re: Who made Paradox type guns? [Re: fishdock]
Thurston Howell III Offline
Junior Member
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Registered: 07/12/06
Posts: 66
Loc: South FL
The idea of the Paradox was to incorporate a full choke with the rifling. When shooting shot you end up with effectively an IC pattern.
Polygon rifling- imagine a bore shaped like an octagonal barrel (though it could be 4,5,6 or whatever sided) but the sides in this bore are twisted into a helix just like conventional rifling. I hope that makes sense, but it's one concept where a picture truly is worth a thousand words.

Dearmer-It would be easier to ask who didn't make a Paradox. It was a very popular item and after the Fosberry patent expired most everybody jumped on the band wagon.
In addition to the ones you mentioned, Bland-Vice Versa, Lang-Afrindia, A&N-Jungle Gun, Jeffery-Shikari, Pape-Rhodesia, Tolley-Ubique to name a few.

Pete

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#20163 - 01/14/07 11:38 AM Re: Who made Paradox type guns? [Re: Thurston Howell III]
fishdock Offline
Sidelock
**

Registered: 01/30/05
Posts: 146
Loc: Florida
Polygon rifling......?

If it's a twisted barrel and not cut rifling in any way, what effect does that have on shot charges? Same as a paradox?

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#21262 - 01/20/07 12:41 AM Re: Who made Paradox type guns? [Re: fishdock]
doublegunhq Offline
Member
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Registered: 12/28/04
Posts: 386
Loc: Canby OR
Simson, Charles Daly (?Sauer)
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Fine English, American and German Double Shotguns and Rifles

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#21835 - 01/23/07 06:59 PM Re: Who made Paradox type guns? [Re: doublegunhq]
unspellable Offline
Member
**

Registered: 12/16/03
Posts: 189
Loc: Iowa
The term "Paradox" is a Holland and Holland trade mark, other makers have different names for the same type of barrel.

There is also such a thing as a "ball" gun. Having true cylinder smooth bores intended to fire a round ball fitted to the bores. I have seen such a gun, a 12 ga double, fitted with rifle sights and stocked like a rifle.

Now days we have slug barrels, often rifled. There is a rumor that Bernardelli made a double barreled slug gun in recent times.

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#21860 - 01/23/07 08:48 PM Re: Who made Paradox type guns? [Re: unspellable]
David Offline
Sidelock
**

Registered: 02/28/02
Posts: 1087
Loc: North of the Arkansas, South o...
Dave Weber has (or had) a side-by-side slug gun of European manufacture. He posted pictures of it and a deer he took with it a few years ago.

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#181412 - 03/05/10 11:19 AM Re: Who made Paradox type guns? [Re: David]
bavarianbrit Offline
Sidelock
*

Registered: 02/25/10
Posts: 217
Loc: Bavaria, Germany
I have a Thomas Bland marked "Euoplia" for ball and shot engraved on the rib with no engaving on the sideplates as was usual with his guns it"s a 12G hammer SxS 2 3/4 chamber with dolls head lockup, still closes like a vault door that three of my pals used at 40 yds and all 6 slug shots were inside a macdonalds big gulp lid say 5 inchs diameter.
Nice gun, I will never sell it.
Martin


Edited by bavarianbrit (03/12/10 01:35 AM)

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#181476 - 03/06/10 12:50 AM Re: Who made Paradox type guns? [Re: bavarianbrit]
Charl Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 06/17/03
Posts: 65
Loc: South Africa
I have a Jeffery marked 'the Jungle Gun'. The rifling appears to be full lenght of the barrel, almost like raised pitting with a gentle twist. Unfortunately I have yet been able to shoot the gun as the barrels are in good condition, the rest of the gun is in poor condition- stock damaged, and top strap broken at the safety. If is one of my 'project' guns for this year.
Regards,
Charl

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#181522 - 03/06/10 04:25 PM Re: Who made Paradox type guns? [Re: ]
Daryl Hallquist Offline
Sidelock
***

Registered: 12/31/01
Posts: 5634
Loc: Bozeman, Mt.
I have seen several Manufrance Robust gun with shotgun bore rifling. Not sure if this was used on their other Models.
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#181647 - 03/07/10 01:31 PM Re: Who made Paradox type guns? [Re: Daryl Hallquist]
Tinker Offline
Sidelock
**

Registered: 01/09/05
Posts: 860
Loc: Northern NV
J&W Tolley did the 'Ubique' line of ball/shot sporting guns.



Cheers
Tinker

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#182136 - 03/10/10 07:26 PM Re: Who made Paradox type guns? [Re: Tinker]
Dave Weber Offline

Sidelock
****

Registered: 11/09/01
Posts: 777
Loc: Bloomfield, NY
I have a Simson (German) 20 bore Paradox type.

Rumor has it Roger Lake may be finishing his Paradox book in the near future?

I am eagerly awaiting it's publishing...Hopefully I can feature it here on site when released.
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#182160 - 03/10/10 11:53 PM Re: Who made Paradox type guns? [Re: Dave Weber]
PM Offline
Sidelock
**

Registered: 02/29/04
Posts: 618
Loc: California
Rogers Book is due anytime, at least volume 1. There was so much material he split into two volumes. It is going to be a very very good read and reference whether your interested in paradoxes or just double gun history.

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#182367 - 03/12/10 03:12 PM Re: Who made Paradox type guns? [Re: ]
Phail Offline
Sidelock
**

Registered: 01/02/02
Posts: 537
Loc: Greenville SC
David Kirkwood (Boston) made Paradox guns in mid 1880's.
I have a Sidelock drilling 12x12x38.55 Kirkwood with Paradox
rifling.
Reguards
Bill Mcphail

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#200511 - 08/23/10 08:33 PM Re: Who made Paradox type guns? [Re: Phail]
Krakow Kid Offline
Sidelock
**

Registered: 01/02/02
Posts: 1733
Loc: Indian Orchard Massachusetts
Surprised, no one mentioned Westley Richards' Faunetta (sp?)


Edited by Krakow Kid (08/23/10 08:33 PM)

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#200523 - 08/23/10 10:36 PM Re: Who made Paradox type guns? [Re: Krakow Kid]
Terry Buffum Offline
Sidelock
***

Registered: 01/29/02
Posts: 622
Loc: Bend,OR
I ordered several copies of Roger Lakes H & H book recently. He said I should expect them in early September. $100 plus shipping directly from him.

Roger's e-mail is morgandhc@aol.com


Edited by Terry Buffum (08/23/10 11:31 PM)

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#200609 - 08/24/10 10:31 PM Re: Who made Paradox type guns? [Re: Terry Buffum]
Steve Helsley Offline
Sidelock
**

Registered: 10/12/09
Posts: 387
The Roger Lake/David Baker Paradox book is done and should be available very soon. I reviewed it for Shooting Sportsman magazine
and it's a "keeper."

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#203139 - 09/18/10 09:39 PM Roger Lake book [Re: Steve Helsley]
WRF Offline
Boxlock

Registered: 02/02/10
Posts: 5
Got My Paradox book in the mail today!

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#203209 - 09/19/10 04:34 PM Re: Roger Lake book [Re: WRF]
LouM Offline
Sidelock
**

Registered: 12/31/01
Posts: 188
Loc: Northern CA
WRF,
Will you share your source for the Paradox book? I am not finding it when I do a search.
Thanks,
LouM
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If it weren't for the wonder of electricity, you'd be reading this post by candle light!

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#203225 - 09/19/10 08:30 PM Re: Roger Lake book [Re: LouM]
WRF Offline
Boxlock

Registered: 02/02/10
Posts: 5
LouM,

Roger Lake, His email is on this thread a couple of responses above mine.

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#203254 - 09/20/10 02:16 AM Re: Who made Paradox type guns? [Re: Krakow Kid]
Utah Offline
Sidelock
*

Registered: 12/31/01
Posts: 754
Originally Posted By: Krakow Kid
Surprised, no one mentioned Westley Richards' Faunetta (sp?)


One listed under the "Doubleguns for Sale" heading.
_________________________
The target lies within.

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#203332 - 09/20/10 04:44 PM Re: Roger Lake book [Re: LouM]
Roger Lake Offline
Boxlock

Registered: 03/28/06
Posts: 2
Loc: Livermore, California
Concerning our book - PARADOX - The story of Col. G.V. Fosbery, Holland & Holland and the Paradox. We have a website: paradox-horsley.com that has all of the ordering information and a few pages of the book. However, the basic ordering information is: Price: $90 plus $5 s/h. (Calif. residents add $8.66, sorry). Please send check or money order to: Roger Lake, 10500 Morgan Territory Rd. Livermore, CA, 94551. (International orders please contact me at morgandhc@aol.com). - Roger

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#203375 - 09/20/10 08:41 PM Re: Roger Lake book [Re: Roger Lake]
LouM Offline
Sidelock
**

Registered: 12/31/01
Posts: 188
Loc: Northern CA
Thanks Roger.
Are you still with GMA or BnB?
Lou M.
_________________________
If it weren't for the wonder of electricity, you'd be reading this post by candle light!

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#203454 - 09/21/10 11:47 AM Re: Roger Lake book [Re: LouM]
Roger Lake Offline
Boxlock

Registered: 03/28/06
Posts: 2
Loc: Livermore, California
Greg Martin Auctions.


Edited by Roger Lake (09/21/10 11:47 AM)

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#203468 - 09/21/10 01:27 PM Re: Roger Lake book [Re: Roger Lake]
LouM Offline
Sidelock
**

Registered: 12/31/01
Posts: 188
Loc: Northern CA
I sure miss your guys' previews, and some successful bidding, in SF. The internet just isn't the same.
Lots of good times over the years, but probably bought too much.
Lou M.
_________________________
If it weren't for the wonder of electricity, you'd be reading this post by candle light!

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