doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com Another restoration by Master Gunsmith Ed Lander!

Geo. N.: I have dealt with the public in a sales and marketing capacity for approximately 40 years now. One of the many things i learned over the years is patience. even though i am now retired, overcoming objections and closing a deal is still my main reward for making a sale. you gotta love it, or otherwise, why bother? thank you for your kind words. ed

Wow! Nine pages already. Normally I would think that is enough, but this may still be of interest: Here is a picture of a model 51 with its original colors taken outdoors without any image adjustments

Very nice and the way we all ,or most of us,like to see 'em.

Does this look original ?

http://www.gunsinternational.com/FOX-STERLINGWORTH-20-GAUGE-98-.cfm?gun_id=100124658

Looks like cyanide colors. I'm no fox expert, but I thought the late savage guns were finished with this method. Of course more and better pictures could help too.

Got this off the Fox Collectors website:

From my observations there are three distinct types of case colors on Fox guns. The early type bone charcoal colors are illustrated above. The second type is seen on guns from the 1916-1918 period and have more light straw color than vivid blue. Doug Turnbull told me the more straw color the harder the surface. These guns exhibit very subdued blue. My theory is these guns are charcoal blued using a chromox frame and they hardened differently than the earlier non-chromox frames. The last group is the cyanide colored chromox frames that have a dark blue appearance.

PS. I think they have been redone.

I have no idea how Mr. Ed knows what most heat treaters bring the temp to when they heat treat a receiver. Also, I have never heard of a CC guy heating a frame to 1600 degrees --- the usual temp is 1400 - 1425 degrees. Furthermore, a frame/receiver should be annealed prior to CC to relieve stresses & release carbon (guess you haven't read about that from another thread Mr. Ed.) Seems there is quite abit you aren't aware of re. CC based on your replies to this subject. Of course I only have a back ground of being a former Colt & Win. master engraver to fall back on & the info the fact. guys taught me.

As to re-CC a frame/action being dangerous, Guess Colt, Win. , and all the guys such as Classic guns & Turnbulls haven't heard from you and your wise opinions re. this topic. Wonder why they continue to re-case these firearms over the past 100 or so years ??? Could you possibly be wrong about the danger aspect ? I for one have never heard of any of the above being sued for damaging a firearm but then again, I have only been in the business for 51 years so might not have the experience you have.

as is typical of some here, ken misses the point and degrades this forum by resorting to the personal attack mode in order to express his views. or, maybe he just has a vested interest in this whole receiver rehardening thing and has to do what he does in order to continue to practice his trade? anyway, so it goes...too bad no one has bothered to note that the husquvarna model 51 is a fine and rare gun. best i can determine, only about 11,000 12 gauge guns were made, between 1911 and 1947. the one i have, which was made in 1916, is a handsome gun and is a fun shooter with rst or polywad one ounce loads. if you are lucky enough to have one, enjoy it!

it it my understanding that the alloy formulas typically used over the years to produce rifle, handgun and shotgun frames or receivers, are quite different. hence, it would make since that the factory heat treating processes used for these various types of firearm frames and receivers would also be different? or to express it another way, what works for rifle receivers, is not the same as what works for handgun frames? and then there is the whole subject of shotgun receivers? anybody have any thoughts to share here? maybe we can start a new thread, as this one is gittin kinda old and stale....

What personal attack? ..... If you want to talk about personal attacks you Mr Ed was the one that recently called a fellow poster a "game hog, butcher, and a psychopathic killer" , now that was a personal attack!