doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com Another restoration by Master Gunsmith Ed Lander!

The only gentleman got burnt up at the last torching.

Hey, watch it there... my attorney is monitering this thread too... and my attorney has a bigger torch than your attorney.

Here is a quote from Ed Good: "most, but not all, turn out to be a fair reproduction of what i consider to be the original factory coloring". Ed Good, I challenge you to put a picture on here of an original gun that has color hardening similar to the
the ones that that I have seen done by "Master gunsmith Ed Lander". I have been collecting double guns and rifles for over 40 years and have never encountered original color hardening like Lander's. I have done color hardening before in a laboratory condition and helped Don Menck of Color Case Company
develop his color hardening methods. I would not touch one of Ed Lander's color jobs on a bet. These old guns have enough potential problems with nonmetallic inclusions let alone having preferential heat treating done to them.

Larry

yeh, I asked if I could get his smith to fit a nice Boyds Royal (Black and Purple) laminate thumbhole stock to that little Lefever. I got a terse, threatening response. Going to report me to GB management etc. Guess he's lost his sense of humor...maybe too many torch fumes.

larry: here we go again....lets try to keep it civil and stick to the topic.... in my opinion:

Heating any shotgun receiver without controlling the temperature and heat duration is potentially dangerous and can damage guns and potentially harm shooters. If a shotgun receiver is heated to critical temperature, such as that required for the bone charcoal hardening process to be effective, then the structure of the surface metal has been changed and the surface metal should be tempered back to provide some elasticity. Otherwise, the surface metal is as brittle as glass and may crack or shatter upon firing of the gun.

Incorrect tempering of receiver surface metel is the inherent flaw in the use of the high heat bone charcoal process when applied to shotgun receivers. A dangerous situation may develop as a result of incorrect tempering of the receiver metal after the high heat bone charcoal coloring process is completed. This is particularly true of older shotgun receivers, made prior to ww2. Factory tempering specifications were inconsistent, as receiver metallurgy formulas changed from time to time. Unfortunately, much of the original factory hardening and tempering specifications have been lost. Even the best of mechanics are only guessing when they attempt to correctly re temper a shotgun receiver after subjecting it to a high heat bone charcoal hardening process.

Quality case coloring should provide cosmetic enhancement without endangering gun integrity or shooter safety....Be careful if you are contemplating sending your prized shotgun's receiver to a high heat bone charcoal mechanic.. He is going heat it up to around 1600 degrees F... Make sure that you get it in writing, that if the receiver warps in the heating and tempering process or that if it cracks after firing, then the mechanic will assume full financial responsibility for the destruction of your gun and/or your personal injury.

A low, controlled heat process, combined with specific chemicals is the safest way to recolor a shotgun receiver. So long as the heat is kept low and controlled, the original receiver metallurgy and heat treatment is not changed. No harm is done to the gun nor is there any potential for danger to the shooter, as a result of the re coloring process.

I myself do not do any gun work of any kind. I have neither the skill nor the patience. Instead, i utilize the services of Ed Lander, for most of my repair and enhancement needs. Old Ed has over 60 years of experience in the gunsmithing trade and does fine work at a fair price. He has recolored literally hundreds if not thousands of shotguns receivers using his low controlled heat, chemical process.

Old Ed has developed his techniques over many years of trial and error. He even has different chemical formulas that simulate different factory colors for different guns, depending on when they were made. He may use a potters kiln to precisely control heat. What i do know, is that his top priorities in all of his gun work are shooter safety and customer satisfaction.

In summary, shotgun receivers should never be rehardened in the vain interest of just restoring the cosmetic effect of case colors. Case hardening is a high heat process which alters the surface molecular structure of the receiver metal. Rehardening a receiver can warp it. Subsequent efforts to straighten the metal, either by bending or filing can only harm the fine original metal-to-metal fit and adversely alter the workings of carefully aligned internal shotgun parts. In addition, if the receiver surface metal is not correctly re tempered after the hardening process, then the receiver metal may be too brittle and as a result, may crack upon firing.

The above is my opinion only. If you have another opinion, then you are certainly entitled to express it. ed

I think you may have a point but the main objection is that Ed's colors do not even begin to look like any original factory work and in fact border on the bizarre.

RHD45: I hope i made more than one point...Anyway, Old Ed has recolored literally hundreds if not thousands of shotgun receivers using his low controlled heat, chemical process. He has done well over 100 at my request. His work is popular with people all over the world! Perhaps, you have not seen enough of his work to make such a bizarre judgement?

The above is my opinion only. If you have another opinion, then you are certainly entitled to express it. ed

Ed, I have no idea how you manage to have the patience and self control to keep responding reasonably to all the abuse you get here. I don't much like the leopard spotted guns you keep pictureing, but I do respect you for the attitude you have when posting on this BBS...Geo

I can only judge from the pictures I have seen of about 20 or so guns that have shown up on the gun sites.I will concede that pictures do not always tell the same story as an actual in person inspection might.

RHD45: 20 examples is certainly enough of a sample for you to form an opinion. you are certainly entitled to your opinion and to express it. fortunately, there are others who appreciate Old Ed's work enough to have purchased most of those guns at fair retail prices. If that were not the case, i certainly would not continue to use his services. ed