doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com 20 GA vs 28 GA IS THERE ALOT OF DIFFERENCE ?

Mike, I do not currently own a 3" 20ga nor have a desire for one. My statement regarding the load was in fact in "Response" to another poster lauding the "Greatness" of a 1oz 28 ga.
If you load all the common gauges to the same level proportionate to their bores using the 1oz 28ga as standard you have; (rounded to nerest 1/16oz
.410 = 9/16 (67½ gauge)
28 = 1
20 = 1¼
16 = 1 7/16
12 = 1 3/4
10 = 2
Of all these note that .410 loads heavier than ½oz, 20ga heavier than 1 1/8oz, 12ga heavier than 1½oz & 10ga heavier than 1 5/8oz are ordinarily put up in 3" cases. (I am not aware of any 16 loads heavier than 1¼oz being currently offered)
It has simply always been amazing to me how many will condemn all these other loads as being inefficient due to their "Overloading" & then "Praise" the 1oz 28 ga which is put up in a normal length hull not having suffecient room for an adequate wad column.
Now lets do the same thing but this time use the 28ga 3/4oz load as the standard & we have;
.410 = 7/16
28 = 3/4
20 = 15/16
16 = 1 1/16
12 = 1 5/16
10 = 1 ½
All these loads are much more sensible. Note also though "IF" the 12ga should be confined to 1 1/8oz then the 28 should likewise be confined to 5/8oz. The 12 is of course quite at home with 1¼oz. W W Greener stated over 100 years ago there was no reason for a 10ga unless one shot at least 1½oz of shot as the 12ga would handle 1¼ quite sufficiently.
One can convince themselves to "Like" whatever they want to, just don't confuse "Like" with facts. Fact is boring a steel bar with a .550" dia hole imparts to it no magical ballistic qualities nor does it automatically make it better handling. A 28 can be made Sveldt & a 20 can end up like a Club, "BUT" the reverse can also be true.
I did once purchase an Itallian made 28" bbl'd 20ga having 3" chambers with a wt of 6¼lbs. I bought it in spite of rather than because of the chambers. I did buy one box of 3" 1¼oz #4's just to have around & over a period of time shot them all up. One definitely knew it was there, but I could have handles them ok if the situation called for them, it didn't. most of the time I had it I fed it a diet of 2½-1-7½ loads. This has long been a favorite load of mine in either the 20 or 16 ga's & have shot a lot of similarily loaded 12's. This gun was given to my son when he lefy home & he still has it.
Although I was never one to keep accurate records of hit vs shots fired the one gun I always felt I probably had the highest ratio of hits to shots fired for my normal hunting activities, which consisted of quail, dove, a few woodcock & rabbits, was a 12ga 28" damascus J P Clabrough back action side lock with ¼ choke in both bbls & weighing 6lb 14oz. The loads used were 1oz of #6 or #8 shot depending on the quarry for the day @ about 1125fps. This was/is a very sweet handling shotgun for me & also pretty nice to look at. Certainly only a "Medium" quality gun, but then I don't own any Bosses or Purdeys.

Well, it's also good for impressing your friends that you are shooting just as well as they are and all you have is a 28. Little do they know your 28 packs 21 more pellets than their 20.

Recoil, schmecoil.

But Miller I don't shoot 1 oz in a 28 gauge. I shoot 3/4 of an ounce in my American 28ga guns and 5/8 of an ounce in my between-the-wars British 28 gauge. If I want to shoot 1 ounce I pick an American 16 gauge or a British 12 gauge out of the gun closet.

I get the mathematical argument you are making about the area of bore diameters.

If you go to Burrards second volume, page 208 and look up the standard loads for 2-1/2" cartridges you get:

28 9/16
20 3/4
16 7/8
12 1 1/16
10 1 5/16 (actually 2-5/8")

I believe these are the standard 2-3/4" American loads, again at about 1175fps:

28 3/4
20 7/8
16 1
12 1 1/8


Certainly you can find or have manufactured a 10 pound 28 gauge or a 5 pound 10 gauge. Wouldn't want to carry the 10 pounder on a Bobwhite hunt or shoot the 5 pound ten gauge with 1-5/16 at ducks.

I concede completely and without reservation that I cannot shoot 1-1/4 ounces out of my 1936 5 pound Birmy 28 gauge. I also concede that you can shoot 1-1/4 ounce out of those 5-3/4 pound Fausti 20 gauge SxSs that Cabelas is selling.

But, if you are shooting a game gun at Bobwhites at 25 or 30 yards with standard American loads (3/4 and 7/8oz at about 1175 fps) then there is very little difference.

My favorite Bobwhite load is 1 ounce of 7-1/2s. I find I don't spend as much time looking for wounded birds. I am usually shooting that load out of a Parker or Lefever sixteen. I do frequently venture out hunting with the 28 gauges as the variety makes my illogical pursuit more enjoyable.

If I could only have one gun it would probably be a Post WWII 12 gauge, boxlock, European, factory proofed for 2-3/4" loads, weighing 6-1/2 pounds, with sling swivels, double triggers, (SxS of course), and extractors. I could shoot everything from 3/4ounce blackpowder handloads at Bobwhites to 1-1/2 ounce factory cheekbruisers at pheasants.

And Gregsy I have seen that phenomenon. A less experienced companion will marvel that I can take game with those little bitty 28 gauge bullets. Of course he doesn't realize that about half of the space in his 12 gauge shell is air.

Best,

Mike

Mike, methinks you don't read so very well. If you go back & check my first post on this thread I believe you will find I basically said just that. That is comparing "Just" those two loads. Things went on from there in discussing the total difference between the two sizes.
As to the 12ga I believe if you check you will find that the standard load for the 2 5/8" shell was 1 1/8oz prior to WWI. The 1 1/16oz load came about as a legal restriction during the "Great War" in England, it has never ben a standard in the US. The "Standard" for the 2 3/4" was 1¼oz & British guns with 2 3/4" chambers are so proofed.
Note also I have absolutely nothing against a 28ga, If one serves the desired purpose Great. The Question concerened the "Differences" between one & a 20. I have tried by level best to acurately describe those differences without being interferred with by "Emotions" but rather by ballistic facts.
If you read Burrard (My favorite authority on the shotgun) you will find he rates the power of the various gauges as being proportional to the load of shot they fire. I rated them as proportional to the Sq Root of their charges. Thus he would assign the 7/8oz load as being 16% superior to the 3/4oz, while I only gave it 8%. Burrard would thus assign the 20ga at 35yds in comparsion to the 28ga while I only gave it 32½yds.
Really I fail to see your problem.

Miller:

The first line of my first post was:



And the first line of the first post of this thread was:



In my first post I wasn't participating in the discussion about the heavier nonstandard loads, just the question he originally posted.

When you replied to my first post I thought you were pointing out the versatility of the 20 gauge. I was pointing out that the recoil would likely go to unpleasant in a 5-3/4 pound 20 gauge gamegun or you would need to go to a heavier gun.

You are obviously good at mathematics and I appreciated the fact that you got the theory that shot density and effective pattern diameter went up with the square root of the number of pellets.

16 gauge 2-1/2" chambers were English proofed at 1 oz. The standard 2-1/2" English 16 guage load was 7/8oz per Burrard. In 20 gauge it was 7/8oz proof marks and 3/4 oz standard loads. Same type deal with 28 gauge.

I think my problem is that I wrote a post that sounded terse when I intended to write conversationally. I apologize for my ineptness.

Best,

Mike

No problem here at all Mike. Another little tidbit here is that prior to about the 1920 most smokeless shotgun powders were relatively fast burning. Basically these standard shot charges could be exceeded only if the velocity was dropped below standard. In the US "Infallible" powder was around back into the 1890's, which was about the same as present "Unique". This will quite handily handle 1¼oz in the 12, many 7/8oz 20's have been loaded with it, though these will not be particularly low pressure. With careful component selection 3/4oz can be loaded with it in the 28, but is about its limit. Heavier loads had to wait on progresive powders. My main interest lies with the older guns & I personally don't mind a gun anywhere in the 6-7 lb range if it is well balanced & fits. I like the capabilites of bing able to use a 1oz load, so within those parameters the 28 is mostly out. Even the 20 is on the borderline.

I field trial my dogs and knocking down the bird is a high priority if I am going to compete. My favorite field trial gun weighs 6pounds 4 ounces, is a 12 gauge, has double triggers and 26" barrels and is a SxS. I shoot it best of all my non-clays guns. I think the weight range you described is probably the best for my game shooting too. I shoot a factory loaded Federal , 2-3/4 dram with 1-1/8 oz of 7-1/2s.

I just get a bang out of sub 6 pound guns. There is no doubt I would be more effective on wild birds if I shot the field trial gun. Obviously I am not subsistence hunting so missing more birds than my usual percentage is not a big deal.

The light guns are a delight to carry, compared especially to the the 8 pound Browning Superposed 12 that I carried for twenty years. But I have no great trouble carrying a 6-1/2 pound gun either.

Best,

Mike