doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com Daly Damascus color?

Knowing Heindrick August Schoverling arrived in the U.S. of A. in the late 1850s as a merchant and considering trial testimony, I knew Heindrdick August Schoverling(he & Daly worked at Hermann Boker in the 1860s) was betting/trading on the side with respect to Schoverling, Daly & Gales(N.C. - bicylces). Heindrick August Schoverling & Sophia Augusta "Gussie" Heitmann were married on Oct. 8, 1868 and Albert August Schoverling possibly was born in the mid to late 1870s. In June of 1898 during the Spanish-American War he entered(was pressed into service) or was drafted?? and only stayed until November of the same year. Heindrick August Schoverling died on the 29th of March, 1891 and it is difficult to determine whose heirs and assigns were in control of Schoverling, Daly & Gales after Daly's death in 1899. But the years of 1903 to 1906 look to have been a very busy period for H.A. Lindner, Sauer & Schoverling, Daly & Gales(Charles H. Daly, Joseph Gales & Theodore W. Stake were principals circa 1904) with the decendents of Heindrick August Schoverling being no different as circa 1904 Schovering & Welles was formed with Albert August Schoverling, Frederick W. Schoverling & Henry S. Welles as the prinicipals at 2 Murray Street, NY. Schoverling and Welles were agents for Muller & Company, J.B. Ranger & Sons of Belgium, Franz Jaeger of Germany as well as others. During this time Albert A.(August?) Schoverling seems to have been very active in competition and also being a memeber at the Palisade Gun Club of Edgewater, N.J. I typed all this seeing I ran across a drilling example with the "Schoverling & Welles" name on it.



http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=158796067

I'm attempting to acquire some info/pics but it may sale soon.

Kind Regards,

Raimey
rse

O.K., who purchased it???


I think I may have cracked the code on the "K.S." initial on the Lindner Daly tubes. At first I had guessed it to be a craftsman such as Karl Schlegelmilch, although I cannot say such a person existed. The Schlegelmilch folk seemed to be everywhere with Emil Schlegelmilch being a partner/principal in Greifeldt. Getting back to the "K.S." I now think it was Karl Streng of Goldlauter and after 1900 up till WWI was listed in Suhl but the area may have included Goldlauter. I also think Karl Streng to be the son, or grandson, of Heinrich Streng who in the mid 1800s was listed as a "Rohrverschrauber" and I'm not really sure of the translation. Peter Weiß(1892-1872?? probably of the Goldlauter Weißs) passed thru the shop of Karl Streng & Company in the early 1900s as an apprentice and went on in 1923 to be the proofmaster at the Zella-Mehlis proofhouse. It seems that Lindner, both Georg & H.A., sourced the master craftsmen in small communities surrounding Suhl. I still hold that the "R.S." to be for Robert Schlegelmilch but if Heinrich Streng had another decendent with the 1st initial of "R.", he could have easily been sourced by the Lindners.

Kind Regards,

Raimey
rse

R.S. – Robert Schlegelmilch until 1923 and the possibility of Richard Schüler thereafter

E.E. – Emil Eckholdt beginning in 1876, at some point used “EES”- Emil Eckholdt Suhl

K.S. - Karl Streng & Company of Goldlauter

Suhler Waffenfabrik Schlegelmilch & Metzner existed until 1901 and then Suhler Waffenfabrik Robert Schlegelmilch was formed and existed until 1923. Seeing Robert Schlegelmilch examples in the 1912-1923 period suggest that he was active during this period and Daly doubles with proof dates in 1924 just might be his work. He did source the tube making to the Kelber boys as did many others during this period mainly due to economics. Post 1923 the possibility exists that the "R.S." initials could easily be for Richard Schüler seeing there is documentation that links Schoverling, Daly & Gales with Richard Schüler.

Kind Regards,

Raimey
rse

This is a H. Scherping but the dual serial number on the watertable is common with a few other firearms merchant's example.

I'm looking for some H.A. Lindner Daly's with a serial number in the same range and in the same location. There is an example in Mr. Cate's book in the same range like #681.



Pete's Geyger from this thread: http://www.doublegunshop.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=104031&page=1



Kind Regards,

Raimey
rse

A. A. Schoverling was manager of the Mullerite Gun Club in Newark, N.J. in 1905
http://www.la84foundation.org/SportsLibrary/SportingLife/1905/VOL_44_NO_22/SL4422016.pdf

Yeah, Drew I'm sure Albert August Schoverling was quite the man about town being a Schoverling heir.

I forgot to note that Charles Daly #681 in Mr. Cate's book has "HAL" over "Crossed Pistols" on the flats as well as 2 intertwined "S"s possibly with a "u" in the center one each tube and 4 stacked "Cavemen" with a "Staff" and a lone "Caveman" with a "Staff" on the left tube. Sort of hints that Sauer & Lindner were working closely together?


Kind Regards,

Raimey
rse

O.K. you 2 Daly fans who are still following this thread, after just a lovely gathering w/ Mr. Wes. Fink of Dayton, viewing 3 beautiful Daly O/Us, I think "F.A." is to be for Franz Adamy, brother of Albert Adamy, and that the serial number range of 26,XXX is that of Gebrüder Adamy and not that of Richard Schüler. And here's why: I'm away from my notes for a bit but Mr. Fink dug up a NRA publication that noted that Sloan's Sporting Goods purchased S, D, & G in the late 1920s and Gebrüder Adamy made guns for Sloan's Sporting Goods or Sloan's Sporting Goods of Conn. sourced Gebrüder Adamy for some of their examples. The above quoted example and those of Mr. Finks are separated by as few as 20 examples apart and not more than say 500. So we have 3 guns made in the 1931-1932 time period in the 26,000 - 266xx range all with "F.A." either on the left side of the lower tube or on the left side of the barrel flats. Mr. Fink has a most interesting/confusing Regent Diamond Pigeon gun that doesn't have a "F.A." stamp but is within say 50 examples of 1 of the 3 aforementioned "F.A." stamped Daly's so by default, even though I didn't see a "F.A." stamp I still contend that by default that it passed under the watchfull eye of the Boys Adamy before heading to Daly and that Gebrüder Adamy was a major player, possibly along with Richard Schüler who might have been next inline in the early 1930s, in the production of Daly examples. Anyone have any Gebrüder Adamy examples with "F.A." or "A.A." on the tubes or have a handle on the Gebrüder Adamy serial number range?

And if memory serves me correct, I think there were several "Sauer Dalys" with a "F.A." stamp on the barrel flats. So did Sauer also sub some of their non-production work to the Boys Adamy? I'm beginning to think that about everyone in Suhl potentially could have put a hammer or a file stroke on about any example sourced from Suhl.

"E.K." is present on all, I think, and could be for Emil Klett or Erich Kelber. A tough call for now but the gothic "J" at the end of the stamp "Krupp Lauf Stahl" may narrow the field of families. Wilhelm Kelber's mark is on at least 1.

Kind Regards,

Raimey
rae

"As a side note, the Klett clan began making weapons in the latter part of the 16th Century and have had grinding wheels/machines and boring devices ever since. I don't know how many branches are on the Klett family tree, but Helmut Klett, an apprentice at the Adamy establishment prior to WWII, is purported to have been the last Klett gunmaker in Suhl before departing after WWII." from here: http://www.doublegunshop.com/forums/ubbt...true#Post148539

So there was a relationship between the Adamy klan and the Klett klan. I wonder if one married the other's sister?

Kind Regards,

Raimey
rse

Ken:
Changing horses a bit, how many Daly single traps you've noted wear the "Crown" over "B" proofmark?

Kind Regards,

Raimey
rse

Here's a bolt gun at Bertram's noting Sloans as sole agents for Gebrüder Adamy: http://bertramandco.com/Mauser3006.html

Kind Regards,

Raimey
rse