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11 members (LGF, GeorgeGibbs505, Jimmy W, Argo44, KDGJ, Hammergun, 1 invisible),
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Apr 29th, 2024
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Joined: Oct 2006
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Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Oct 2006
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Is there anyone who can help identify this maker. The gun has no other marks except Krupp Steel (barrels). The barrels where damaged so I am converting to a double rifle. [img]  [/img]  http://i57.photobucket.com/albums/g211/rshow/id039.jpg" alt="" />[/img] [img]  [/img] [img]  [/img]
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Joined: Aug 2007
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Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Aug 2007
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E.(Erdmann) Schmidt & Habermann. Could you post a pic of the area ahead of the flats. Also I think the frame to be similar to a recent "Hubertus" drilling thread.
Kind Regards,
Raimey
rse
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Joined: Jan 2002
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Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Jan 2002
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Sidelock
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Sidelock
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The barrels were cut off, the block welded and linebored to make a monoblock. There was a name (Richard Fleis Co on one barrel and Prussstanl-Krupp-Essex on the other with the letters RW in a oval on both barrels)along with the proofs. [img][IMG] http://i57.photobucket.com/albums/g211/rshow[/img] [img]  [/img] [img]  [/img] [img]  [/img]
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Joined: Aug 2007
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Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 10,822 Likes: 194 |
Thanks for the valuable info on the marks Rd Show. Any initials on the frame or watertable?
Kind Regards,
Raimey
rse
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Joined: Oct 2006
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Sidelock
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Sidelock
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Thanks for the replies and all the info. I will have the stock off to replace the left firing pin tomorrow and i will search the frame. The only marks on the watertable are the serial nos. and proofs. The action seems to be well made and very strong,did i mention the letters SS on the barrels and the word (Leipzig)on the top of the barrel just forward of the flats. Regards Rich
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Joined: Aug 2007
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Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 10,822 Likes: 194 |
As far as the maker, I'd attach a good bit of weight to Rob. Werner listed as being a parts source and early on the Werner folks were tube makers as well as most other gun making facets. Some weight could be sent toward August Richard Weissheit or Weißheit's way who was in Zella-Mehlis. I don't know if the "SS" was for Sauer or Gotthard Schillings tube factory.
Kind Regards,
Raimey
rse
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Joined: Oct 2006
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Sidelock
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Sidelock
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Raimey
Do you have any idea what the letters (ESHA) stands for in front of the trigger guard (first picture). Regards Rich
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Sidelock
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Sidelock
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E(Erdmann) S(chmidt) & HA(bermann), Suhl. The firm was founded in 1886 and I think both fellas were up in years. E. Schmidt I think to be a businessman and possible a Senator at some point. As usual with a business name, the money man was 1st and the workhorse/craftsman was 2nd. By the time this example was made Richard, Franz & Paul Stadelmann were the owners and possibly by 1927 Richard was out of the picture. What relationship they had to Schmidt or Habermann, I can't say for now.
Kind Regards,
Raimey
rse
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Joined: Feb 2008
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Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Feb 2008
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Rich, Your thread is very interesting and leaves me with a lot of questions. What rifle cartridge are you converting this gun to? How do you determine if your action is suitable for conversion from shotgun to double rifle? I assume the picture of the breech being smoked is after sleeving new barrels into the monobloc? (I'm looking for the solder joint... not sure if I'm seeing it) I hope you'll keep updating us on your progress.
A true sign of mental illness is any gun owner who would vote for an Anti-Gunner like Joe Biden.
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Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Jan 2002
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The cartridges look like .450-400 3 1/4".
May God bless America and those who defend her.
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Joined: Oct 2006
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Sidelock
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Sidelock
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The cal. is 45-3.250-500gr. based on the 45-3.250-Sharps, or 45-120. Regards Rich
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Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Nov 2005
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Rich,
You took on another conversion project. Glad to see you are feeling better!
Looks like it will make a fine 45-120.
Pete
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Sidelock
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Sidelock
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Thanks Pete, Iam going to try to reach 2000fps. Iam feeling much better after being in the Hospital. I found out I am a debetic with my sugar running over 600. I had monthly checkups but no one was minding the store. I have been taking 50 units of ins. and 2000mg. Metoforman a day for about eight weeks now and feeling 100% better. Thanks Rich
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Joined: Aug 2007
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Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 10,822 Likes: 194 |
Raimey
Do you have any idea what the letters (ESHA) stands for in front of the trigger guard (first picture). Regards Rich    similar to flyer and different example from the one below. The frame reinforcment/mini clamshell looks to be a hallmark of Erdmann Schmidt & Habermann so I wonder where they sourced their frames?   Kind Regards, Raimey rse
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Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 10,822 Likes: 194
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 10,822 Likes: 194 |
The barrels were cut off, the block welded and linebored to make a monoblock. There was a name (Richard Fleis Co on one barrel and Prussstanl-Krupp-Essex on the other with the letters RW in a oval on both barrels)along with the proofs.
An encircled "RW" similar to the stamp on these tubes?  Kind Regards, Raimey rse
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Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 10,822 Likes: 194
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 10,822 Likes: 194 |
Miller & Valentin Greiß sourced example from ESHA in the "forsale" section:  Kind Regards, Raimey rse
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Sidelock
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Sidelock
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Picked up a woodswalker today by this maker, 16x16x22wrf. Will post pics. tomorrow, just got the power back on and am out of the shop for the night. There are barrel markings i have not seen before.Thanks for all the response. Rich
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Joined: Oct 2006
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Sidelock
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Sidelock
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Posts: 236 |
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Joined: Aug 2007
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Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 10,822 Likes: 194 |
Thanks for the effort. Kind Regards, Raimey rse
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Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 10,822 Likes: 194
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 10,822 Likes: 194 |
Proof pics of the Miller & Valentin Greiß by Erdmann Schmidt & Habermann.    Kind Regards, Raimey rse
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Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 236
Sidelock
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Sidelock
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Raimey on the inside of the frame between the sears, on the back of the standing breech are the letters A.Th. Hope this is useful to you. Rich Thanks for the valuable info on the marks Rd Show. Any initials on the frame or watertable?
Kind Regards,
Raimey
rse
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Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 10,822 Likes: 194
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 10,822 Likes: 194 |
Thanks for the effort, Rich, and right off I can only think of Fritz Thomas of Zella-Mehlis, so maybe he had a brother.
Kind Regards,
Raimey
rse
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