S |
M |
T |
W |
T |
F |
S |
|
|
|
|
|
1
|
2
|
3
|
4
|
5
|
6
|
7
|
8
|
9
|
10
|
11
|
12
|
13
|
14
|
15
|
16
|
17
|
18
|
19
|
20
|
21
|
22
|
23
|
24
|
25
|
26
|
27
|
28
|
29
|
30
|
31
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
0 members (),
872
guests, and
3
robots. |
Key:
Admin,
Global Mod,
Mod
|
|
Forums10
Topics38,374
Posts544,014
Members14,391
|
Most Online1,258 Mar 29th, 2024
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 4
Boxlock
|
OP
Boxlock
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 4 |
On X-Mas eve a fellow came into the gunshop that I help out at and wanted to trade his grandfathers guns in for store credit. I knew the family was from old English family who came to Canada around the turn of the century.One of the guns was a shotgun with sights. To make a long story short I purchased this gun and am know trying to find out info. on it and its almost non-existant. The shot gun is marked C.W.Andrews of London, it is a top lever hammer barlock action with english scroll engraving(70%coverage) the barrells are 30" long with smooth bores a matted rib that has a 2 leaf rear sight (50yrd,100yrd) the front sight is a bead with a raised section of the rib. The gun is nitro proofed for 1-1/8" shot and a 725 grain bullet cordite, both barrells are marked S&B ,also the barrells themselves are marked BSA Birmingham and are steel. The only other proof marks are blackpowder proofs on the barrell flats and on the barrells as well the chamber markings on the flats are 13/1. This gun is in excellent shape with a straight English stock of nice English walnut with a bakelite butplate, it also has 2-1/2" chambers. My ? is does anybody have any records for this maker or no anything about this maker? and what diameter bullets or round ball should be shot in this gun? should I load black powder or smokeless? should I use paper or brass cases? I see alot of true Paradox guns for sale but none with true smooth bores, is there any loading info I could find for these guns? As there are only 4 guns buy this maker here in Canada there is no one for me to talk to, I hope some of you fine gentalmen can help me out, best regards Dale in Canada
|
|
|
|
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 10,737 Likes: 181
Sidelock
|
Sidelock
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 10,737 Likes: 181 |
S&B would be for "Shot & Ball". There was a Charles W. Andrews of 6 Great Winchester Street, who retailed arms from the early 1890s up until 1900 where the trail goes cold. In 1894 the name was changed to include LLC or Ltd. A gunmaker named Charles E. Andrews of 15 Swallow Street, Piccadilly, was working in the late 1890s or just 1900. He more than likely was a decendent of Charles W. Andrews. Are the marks Birmingham or London? Could you post a pic?
Kind Regards,
Raimey rse
|
|
|
|
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 4,598
Sidelock
|
Sidelock
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 4,598 |
Charles William Andrews commenced in business at 6 Great Winchester Street in 1882.
In 1891 the firm opened a factory in Birmingham at 13 Bath Street, and became a limited liability company.
In 1901 they occupied 5-6 Great Winchester Street, London, and in 1913 they moved to 2 Bradford Avenue.
In 1914 the Birmingham factory moved to Barton Passage, Newhall Street.
The company appears to have closed between 1917 and 1919, but may have continued in London as Andrews Firearms and Accessories Co.
The BSA gives it away. The gun was a Birmingham special, ie it was made by BSA and Andrews put their name on it.
You need to post some pictures, especially of the markings.
Pete
|
|
|
|
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 10,737 Likes: 181
Sidelock
|
Sidelock
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 10,737 Likes: 181 |
Even though your example is shot & ball, I'd post in the 1st forum where you are more likely to get a lot more exposure/comments.
Kind Regards,
Raimey rse
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 4
Boxlock
|
OP
Boxlock
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 4 |
Pete and sidelock thankyou for the info. it is very enlightning. The ? about the proof marks on the barrell flats are Birmingham BV and NP with a crown over each of them, my book says this was done with these proofs since 1904. Now on the barrells themselves BSA mark with three connecting lines above wich looks like their company logo and under each of these is a proof mark wich consists of a crown with the letters BP wich my book says are provitional proofs for barrells since 1856. So it seems they used there London address as way to mark there guns made in Birmingham with the London address!!! Do any of you no if there is factory records still surviving and where they are??? Sorry do not have axcess to a digital camera right now, will try to post when my friend comes over with camera.Another ? were there many guns made by this company, my serial# is 3800 if anyones interested, do you consider this gun good as a london made gun? And is there any litterature writen on CWAandrews that I could purchase, thanks again Dale in Canada
|
|
|
|
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 10,737 Likes: 181
Sidelock
|
Sidelock
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 10,737 Likes: 181 |
Yeah, I'd guess post 1904 marks also with the Cordite and it was commonplace to retail a longarm with a London address but made and proofed in Birmingham. I don't know of any records but there are several folks on the BBS who have knowledge on the British gun trade and again I would guess you would receive more exposure on the 1st forum.
Kind Regards,
Raimey rse
|
|
|
|
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 37
Sidelock
|
Sidelock
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 37 |
To add, my meager reference indicates that the company became CW ANDREWS LTD, s.a. in 1894. Also, that they were at their final address 1913-1917.
Then it lists ---
ANDREWS FIREARMS & ACCESSORIES CO. (poss. successor to CW ANDREWS LTD) 131 Kennington Pk Rd, SE11 from 1919-1937 304 Kennington Rd from 1938-1940
~
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 704
Sidelock
|
Sidelock
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 704 |
One of our contemporary gun writers, can't recall who, has a CW Andrews double nitro rifle that he likes very much.
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 262
Sidelock
|
Sidelock
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 262 |
In regards to handguns C. W. Andrews imported, had proved in Birmingham and retailed a wide variety of Belgian arms.
|
|
|
|
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 622
Sidelock
|
Sidelock
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 622 |
Just a guess; but with a proof indicating a conical 12 bore bullet might there be some sort of rifling in the bore invisible, oval or...?
|
|
|
|
|