doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com BRNO sidelock dating

I have strong reservations about the "-95" to have been a production date but rather a proof date because as stated above on the "Czech required proof" which was stamped as it passed thru the proofhouse. I wouldn't think the that the manufacture stamped the "-95" and the proofhouse stamped the other.

Another reservation surrounds Pavlicek & the ZP Models. I'm positive he was a designer for pistols but I haven't seen any info yet that suggest he was involved in scattergun design: http://waffenamt.net/wa/shop?lb=Item%5B108134%5D&rp=Catalog& . I still hold it goes back Nowotny, with Emanuel Holek being an apprentice at J. Nowotny and A. Nowotny founding Zbrojovka Praga, Prague in 1918.

Here's some composed info I continue to add to:
I could be mistaken, but the Models were ZP 47, ZP 49, ZP 50, etc(ZP749??). surfaced after WWII and up till 1950. For now I think the “ZP” to stand for Zbrojovka Praga as a possible reference or name resurrection. The Communist were in control in 1948 so arms after then should be marked “Narodny Podnik” / State Enterprises. But lets go back in time a bit to post WWI in 1918 when A. Nowtony formed Zbrojovka Praga in Prague. He and his clan of gunsmiths were manufacturing the Praga pistols and perfecting the Praga M-24 alloy machine-gun. His list of gunsmiths at least contained the names of Emanuel, Frantisek and Vaclav Holek, Karel Krnka and Frantisek Myska.
Emanuel Holek was an apprentice to J. Nowotny of Prague and after Zbrojovka Praga was liquidated in 1926, joined Ceska Zbrojovka of Strakonice and then in 1927 was on to Zbrojovka Brno in 1927.
Vaclav Holek(1886-1954) apprenticed in Pisek before working in Vienna in 1905 for Mulacz. Five years later he was back with Nowotny of Prague making H&H style sidelock scatterguns. Then he joined his brother Emanuel at Zbrojovka Praja researching the Praga M-24 and moved on to Ceskoslovenska Zbrojovka, Brno after the 1926 liquidation. This fella could be the source of the ZP design.
Frantisek Holek(1894-1951) worked in Moscow and joined the Zbrojovka Praja ground in 1919 straightaway to chief of design. Upon the 1926 liquidation, Frantisek left to work for Frantisek Janecek, electrical engineer, who had attempted a business at tool, die and precision instrument which failed and sent he back to marking weapons in Prague about the time the Zbrojovka Praja experience failure. Janecek was into ammo, arms and autos.
Karel Krnka(April 6th, 1858 – Feb. 25th, 1926) was more of a theorist in gun design as well as writer. He apprenticed to his father, Sylvestr Krnka, who had been an apprentice to the Viennese gunamker Nowtony in the 1840s. Considering expiring in 1926, I don’t think he had much to do with the ZP series.
Frantisek Myska of Dvory at the age of 14 in 1913 was an apprentice to gunmaker Bedrich Kopriva of Nymburk(active from 1890 – 1925) from 1913 to 1917. On his Journeyman walkabout he worked for Austrian Emil Skoda, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/%C5%A0koda_Works & http://www.quel.nl/Toeleveranciers/skoda-steel/19041 , who in 1869 purchased the workshop of Graf Arnost after being deported from Germany due to the 7 Weeks War in 1866. Skoda made arms as well as opened a steel process facility in 1884. But getting back to Myska, he attended the technical college in Prague from 1919 to 1921 and joined Zbrojovka Praga in 1922. He designed pistols as well as the CZ 241 auto-loader.

Now onto the different Czech Zbrojovka companies. Karel Bubla founded the South Bohemian Arms Company, Jihoceska Zbrojovka, in 1919 to make the 6.35mm Fox pistols by hand and mechanization didn’t occur until 1920. Man and material was moved to Strakonice in early 1921. Ceska Zbrojovka(CZ – Bohemian Arms Company), Prague was formed in 1922 by uniting Jihoceska Zbrojovka and the Hubertus Company, which one I’m not sure of. But at this union and founding of CZ, the government shifted the pistol making operation of Ceskoslovenska Zbrojovka, (ZB – Czechoslovakian Arms Company), Brno to CZ at Prague, which made tools as of 1928, bicycles in 1930 and motorcycles in 1934. And in 1955 due the auto and motorcycle effort, a sub was as Ceske Zavody Motocyklove which I think was a name change of an earlier 0.22” caliber sporting division under the Zavody name. ZB was formed in 1923 to absorb/purchase the government entity of Ceskoslovenske Zavody na Vyrobu Zbrani(CSZ –Czechoslovakian Factory for Military Products, Brno, which was a small arms factory or refurb facility which began in 1919 to refurb Mauser and Mannlicher rifles. If I’m not mistaken, CZ-N.P.(Ceska Zbrojovka Narodny Podnik(State Entity/Enterprise) makes sporting weapons in Brno and some of the aforementioned gunsmiths were instrumental in beginning the ZP Side by Side series.


For Lovena fans, I think, but am on the quest for additional info, that Lidove Druzstvo Puskaru 'Lov'('Dilo' Svratovich??) of Litomysl( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Litomy%C5%A1l ) to possibly be the source of Lovena,
http://www.spcr.cz/en/firmy/lovena-druzstvo

Kind Regards,

Raimey
rse

Although not a sidelock, I've often wondered who was the father of the robust Brno O/U and I now think it was Alois Tomiška, Little Tom pistol designer:

http://www.google.com/patents?id=xU1DAAA...;q=&f=false

Alois Tomiška (February 1867 in Pardubice - 1946 in Prague), and many other Bohemian craftsmen, seem to have spent a good deal of time in the shops of the Vienna craftsmen and Alois Tomiška was no exception as I think he spent about 20 years there, probably at different ones but I suspect Nowonty saw him quite a bit. I guess they went to Vienna due to the Austro-Hungarian Empire. Alois Tomiška should have been a master by cira 1890 and he departed to Plzeň in 1918.

The Hubertus Company was a successor to J.Wenisch.

Kind Regards,

Raimey
rse