doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com Firma Franz Kettner

Rob:

Being a 16 bore I wonder why the "16" stamp and what are the initials "FM"? on the underside of the right tube near the forend lug?


Also is that the Sauer "S&S" in an oval stamp near the flats?

Kind Regards,
Raimey
rse

I realize the following is about Eduard Kettner, but I first I thought it odd that he peddled Savage rifles via the South American Trading Company, London?, but upon 2nd thought that was his business(1904 advert): http://books.google.com/books?id=iskpAAA...ner&f=false

Also Eduard Kettner made a pretty big mark at the 1900 Paris expo as a "maker of sporting arms in Suhl".

Kind Regards,

Raimey
rse

Raimey,
(Check your e-mail)
The "16" Is actually stamped KAL. 16. The "scribed lettering on the right tube near the forearm lug is FK or EK. Yes both tubes are stamped with S&S in oval near the flats.
Very interesting information above, thank you.
What happened to the original poster of this thread? I would have liked to have seen some pictures of his example of Kettner S&S.

Kind Regards,
Rob

Thanks Rob. I just wish I knew the source of the "KAL. 16" or "CAL. 16"?? I don't think it is "FK" as F.A. Klett, tube maker, expired just before WWI and the company was owned by Frau Hedwig & Alfred Hauche. Some give 1927 as the year Emil Klett just may have received his master's brief, although it could have been a few years earlier. He also was a tube maker and more than likely embraced mechanization. I may sound like a broken record but I think it is a valid point, but mid 19th century there were no less that a baker's dozen of Klett gunsmiths, most masters, was well as the odd bayonet maker. There is a Klett gunmaker today, but not in Suhl so pretty much WWII decimated the Klett ranks. With the Krupp tube steel type stamp, I'd say the S&S in a oval is for Sauer but the "KAL. 16" makes me pause but I guess there's no reason to think otherwise.

Kind Regards,

Raimey
rse

Now the was an Erich Kelber who was active in the 1930s with automated tube machinery, but I don't seen any other Kelber type stamps and thus rule him out. It is a script "E.K."(looks to be a poor stamping effort) and the Kelber's did for the most part use script, but I still hold to Emil Klett until a preponderance of evidence proves otherwise.


Kind Regards,

Raimey
rse

Hello,

I was reading the information that has been posted on this blog and I would like to see if anyone has information about Eduard Kettner Drillings.

One of my family members has an Eduard Kettner drilling that is the same as the guns you have been talking about. It has double 16 gage barrels with a 8.7mm drilling underneath. It is marked with COLN-SHUL and the name Marke Rhenns. I have been looking for information about this gun for a long time and I haven't come across one. The main reason is that our gun is gold plated (or gold colored). The finish is bright and shinny. Like most Kettner drillings, it is covered in scroll work and there aren't any scenes like some of them have.

Does anyone know anything about this gun? I don't know the year or anything about the manufacturer. Also, I would like to get a base idea of what it may be worth so that I can start to get my family into gear and put it on their insurance.

Thank you very much,

Joe

Joe:

With an 8.7mm pre-rifled stamp the cartridge is probably a 9.3mm variant. GGCA(German Gun Collectors Association - www.germanguns.com forsale) Journal # 38 has an article on the Kettner klan with combined info from member Axel Panterm�hl & Max Ern(German gunmaker). In brief, Franz Otto Julius Kettner founded the firm Eduard Kettner Company in 1884. The Eduard Kettner firm was pretty much a firearms merchant sourcing the craftsmen of Suhl for their weapons. In 1925 the Dornheim Company absorbed the Eduard Kettner Company. Robert Friedrich B�hring was the manager followed by Karl Georg B�hring(Buehring) and Dr. Klaus B�hring. On June 30th, 1943 K�ln was pretty much leveled destroying the Eduard Kettner Company facilities. In 1945 the business was resurrected with the aide of an American general. Eduard Kettner peddled all things outdoors and by 1958 Georg and Helmut B�hring were at the helm. They occupied a building near the New Theater very close to the Rhein. It was in this period of 1951 to 1961 that the company really began to come into it's own again offering anything from clothing, knives, drillings and even Savage offerings.

Pics would be most helpful especially the marks/stamps on the underside of the tubes from the flats up to the forend hanger.

Kind Regards,

Raimey
rse

Raimey,

Thank you very much for the information. I have attempted to attach the pictures of the Kettner drilling that I posted about earlier. If you have any information or insights please let me know. These are the only pictures I have and I wont be able to take any more for a few months... sorry. I took these pictures before I found this blog so they are not the greatest.

Thank you very much for your help,

Joe

The gold wash/tint has me a bit puzzled. But it somewhat akin to a Sauer Model 20, but the engraving looks like that of an apprentice via the aid of a stencil. F.W. Heym had a similar one as a Model 122 and there were others, with some having a bit more side-frame reinforcing. Many refer to it has having a "Scott" opener. It looks to have passed thru the Suhl proofhouse post 1912 and if the date was later than 1923 there will be a date stamp below the "8,7mm" over "72"?? stamp. It has a "Crown" over "E" denoting an additional Express proof. And there appears to be a Schilling forge stamp on the rifled tube. The marks from the forward lug to the forend hanger will yield the most info. So a pic of that area would be most beneficial. Also the steel type stamps on the sides of the tubes will give the steel maker. On the average hammer drillings usually don't realize much over $2k U.S. of A.

Kind Regards,

Raimey
rse