S |
M |
T |
W |
T |
F |
S |
|
1
|
2
|
3
|
4
|
5
|
6
|
7
|
8
|
9
|
10
|
11
|
12
|
13
|
14
|
15
|
16
|
17
|
18
|
19
|
20
|
21
|
22
|
23
|
24
|
25
|
26
|
27
|
28
|
29
|
30
|
|
|
|
|
|
0 members (),
1,059
guests, and
5
robots. |
Key:
Admin,
Global Mod,
Mod
|
|
Forums10
Topics38,469
Posts545,142
Members14,409
|
Most Online1,299 Apr 26th, 2024
|
|
|
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 353 Likes: 1
Sidelock
|
OP
Sidelock
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 353 Likes: 1 |
Fellow members, A couple weeks ago I spent time writing an online article about some of the methods I use in loading paper patched bullets. I'm going to go ahead and throw it out for what it's worth. If you are interested, here is a link: A Few Tricks With Paper Patched Bullets I hope this is helpful. We can use this thread for discussion and comment. Best, Curl
|
|
|
|
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 625 Likes: 1
Sidelock
|
Sidelock
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 625 Likes: 1 |
Hello Curl,
An interesting article and I do hope your loads shoot well. If I can be permitted to make one observation. I have examined over the past 50 years several hundred paper patched bullets taken from British BP Express rifles, from both solid and coiled brass cases. In every instance the turn over of the patch onto the bullets base was seldom more than 3/16th's of an inch. Many of the bullets examined had concave or slightly concave bases. Not once have I ever found a PP bullet with a twisted tail which seems to be advocated by so many Americans.
The paper patch is supposed to break free from the bullet within a few feet of leaving the muzzle, the larger the turnover of the paper patch the more chance that at least part of it will be pressure adhered to the base of the bullet.
I suppose in Black Powder Express PP rounds it isn't vital because they were only used at short range but in Long Range target shooting it is vital the patch leave the bullet every time and at a short distance from the muzzle.
Harry
Biology is the only science where multiplication can be achieved by division.
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 353 Likes: 1
Sidelock
|
OP
Sidelock
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 353 Likes: 1 |
Harry,
Thanks for your comments.
Yes the patch should come off right after leaving the barrel. That's what I'm experiencing. Interestingly, with my .500 I am using less turnover than what you see there with my .577. I don't see any difference in performance of the patches, though. They all come right off.
Maybe I'll try shortening the .577 patch a bit and see if there is an improvement.
Again, thanks for the comments.
Best, Curl
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 881 Likes: 5
Sidelock
|
Sidelock
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 881 Likes: 5 |
Curl, Thank you!! What diameter bullet would I use in my 450BPE if I wanted to try patching? The bores are .458. Thanks again!! Bob Jurewicz
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 353 Likes: 1
Sidelock
|
OP
Sidelock
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 353 Likes: 1 |
Bob,
I believe the rule of thumb is to use a bullet of bore diameter, that is, the diameter across the lands.
It should be somewhere near .450" for a .458. Paul Matthews goes to some length discussing the proper bullet diameter.
There are other complications also. For instance, most A. Henry rifles have tapered bores and grooves. That can make a big difference. The bullet cast from the original mould for my A. Henry .577BPE has a tapered shank and is made to be paper patched. You just have to wade into the water and see how it goes.
Best, Curl
|
|
|
|
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 602
Sidelock
|
Sidelock
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 602 |
I shall be wading into the world of paper patching for my Martini-Henry in the new year; I'm thinking for game, it could offer some real advantages - soft lead which will mushroom perfectly on game, upset to fill the bore, and yet not lead the bore. RG
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 448 Likes: 4
Sidelock
|
Sidelock
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 448 Likes: 4 |
Great article! I have a couple rifles in 11.15x60R that I've been wanting to try with paper patched bullets, your tutorial will be a great reference.
One question, I recall reading somewhere that the paper patching can be somewhat abrasive to the bore. Any truth to it?
Thanks,
Craig
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 353 Likes: 1
Sidelock
|
OP
Sidelock
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 353 Likes: 1 |
Craig,
I am not aware of any evidence that paper patched bullets are abrasive to the bore. Perhaps if not lubed properly?
Remember, this was standard loading procedure 125 years ago. Even military rifles were used with paper patched bullets at that time.
I'm glad you found the article informative.
Best, Curl
|
|
|
|
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 11,343 Likes: 390
Sidelock
|
Sidelock
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 11,343 Likes: 390 |
I think the recommended paper is a high quality cotton rag bond. I would imagine that lower quality paper could have abrasive dirt mixed in its' fibers. Also, the exposed ring of lubed paper on the loaded cartridge could collect dirt which would act as a lapping compound. For years, I used a wad of hornets nest material over my black powder in my flintlock rifle after I'd read that it would slightly increase velocity and protect the patch from burning. After a decade of that, I believe it may have contributed to a fairly sudden (and premature) loss of accuracy. I think mud is the binder for the hornet nest paper and it would of course be abrasive. You could actually feel that the sharp edges of the lands was gone in comparison to the replacement barrel. This was not just ramrod wear as shortening and recrowning did not help at all. Even so, this probably took upwards of a thousand shots to seriously affect accuracy.
A true sign of mental illness is any gun owner who would vote for an Anti-Gunner like Joe Biden.
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 6,715 Likes: 415
Sidelock
|
Sidelock
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 6,715 Likes: 415 |
The size of the bullet and the thickness of the paper must be matched to the type of throating in the rifle and intended application. Many things will work. Some better than others, but there is no gospel.
As this is a hunting rifle, I would be looking closely at the throat and hoping to see a fairly gradual taper. A casting of the throat would help immensely.
With a tapered throat, I would make bullets that are about the land diameter, and then patch them to about groove diameter or a bit less, then seat deep enough to seat just off the lands when the barrel is fouled. Fouling control is everything here. Use a grease cookie and quality lube made for blackpowder.
Paper can be cotton rag, partial cotton rag, or whatever. That is not really important. Finding the right paper to match bullet with bore is difficult. It is often easier to find the paper and then have the bullet mould cut to match the paper/bore combination.
Brent
_________ BrentD, (Professor - just for Stan)
|
|
|
|
|