doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com Shotgun barrel regulation--historical question

Would it have been a common practice in England for the maker to shoot and regulate the barrels for point of impact on an average Birmingham or similar gun? How about American doubles?

i doubt it. shot and regulated would have been a sales point.MC

Barrels made with reasonable care will regulate reasonably well. Better than "reasonably well" is expensive. So, only guns with a profit margin that allows expensive hand work will be hand regulated. That said, only the top Original Quality grades would be subject to such work. Average grades of anyones guns would not be hand regulated.

"Shot and regulated" is basically an assurance from the selling brand that a gun from a less well respected brand will perform to the seller's reputation.

I cannot find it but I read a descrioption of a process to make the both barrels shoot to a point. The smith had the gun in the white. He was at a shooting range set up along with a soldering iron and soldering iron heater. The soldering iron had two rods that fit in the end of the double barrel. He would shoot both barrels onto plates (as I remember it he had five plates set up to speed the process)several times and then, using the hot iron inserted into the muzzles, soften the solder and make any necessarry changes in their relationship to each other.

I have never regulated barrels but having read what the double rifle guys go though I find it hard to believe that standard guns in Birmingham or London were not regulated to shoot to the same elevation and also to the same point in the left/right grid. I don't think they just soldered them up, cleaned them up, blacked them, and then hoped for the best.

Mike

Circa 1880 the British began using a pneumatic barrel straightener. At about the same time Pieper invented an oven to braze barrels. These two innovations greatly improved poi and speeded production of sxs shotguns. This is a picture from Lucien Clement's shop, circa pre-1900 that shows the Belgian version of the British pneumatic machine.



Pete

My old (long gone) friend Bob claimed that Parker varied the "packing" to change the Point of impact in their guns. Bob"s grandfather worked for Parker but I am not sure if this was the source of his info.

bill

Short answer is no. Further, I think that "shot and regulated by whomever" is a load of codswallop. Yeah,sure, those West End gunmakers bought in finished guns from Birmingham and then started messing around with the barrels to get them to converge at 40 yards. Yeah, I believe that. Yes, and the British Empire civilized the world and the British Museum bought all that stuff.
nial

Joe,
Get Mike to spring for the H&H video, after all, he does claim to be your instructor. In there, they show the regulating process they use.

O.K., I asked the question and decided today to go to the best authority I know of: Jack Rowe of Enid, Oklahoma. Jack's response was that some, but not all, of the guns would be shot and regulated BUT only for pattern. Never for point of impact. He discussed with me how difficult, if not impossible, it would be to loosen ribs of a shotgun and reset them. He contrased this with double rifles which are regulated for point of impact but they have a wedge at the muzzle that can be moved to change the impact. Shotguns do not have this feature. He indicated even the best shotguns are not regulated for POI. Jack described the process of joining the barrels and the precision with which they are set up for soldering or brazing using two levels on the jig. He said the bores remain perfectly straight and properly done they will shoot very close together. He also mentioned how useless it is for a maker to regulate POI since so much of it depends on the individual shooter's style. I enjoyed his closing comment: "My goodness, it's a shotgun, not a rifle and it only takes one pellet to kill. The bird's not going to know the difference if one barrel shoots a couple inches from the other."

Joe,
The video seems to imply each and every H&H (Royal?) is regulated for POI and they show adjusting the regulation.