doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com Investment quality doubles....

George, the only "investments" of this type either need to be rare, mint condition or have a significant providence. Rare and mint condition are going to cost money unless the seller has no clue of what they are selling. Less likely today because the internet make information so easily available to any who want to find it. Field grade guns and guns we use as shooters will never appreciate very much because they will lack both mint condition and are fairly numerous.

I hesitate to tell anyone to buy Winchester or Parkers because the market is flooded with faked, refinished and upgraded guns. Experts have a hard time picking many of them up and a novice is sure to be screwed buying in this market.

Providence, if well documented, can add real value to a gun to the right market. It must be well documented or it is just a meaningless legend. Just because someone tells you a gun was owned by someone does not make it so. But if you can show that a gun was owned by someone it might make it more valuable to another buyer. After all, the world is full of blue dresses but one above all others was much more of interest a few years ago. I am sure to the right buyer that dress still has a great deal of value. One person who comes to mind would certainly burn that dress and all concerned with it given a good chance.

If I had any gun that had Providence I would tremble with a mixture of fear and excitement. Provenance, on the other hand, I could live with.

I just disposed of a Pinnacle non-linear editing system for ($0) The original cost of this still operable system was $16,000 around 15 years ago. Firearms have been relatively good investments for me as I have yet to figure out how to get any personal enjoyment out of stocks and bonds. I am primarily a used gun buyer and every one I own is now worth more than I paid for it.
If there is any shortage of shooters young and old,male and female I certainly haven't noticed it but that may be due to the fact that I like in a State like Arizona.
Jim

The issue is more about liquidity. Good deals can be made that result in immediate short time profit. But the next buyer isn't always near at hand, and hence the problem.
If you are going to collect, I have always been advised that you should either, "Go Deep", meaning narrow focus, and as complete as can be accumulated, or, "Go Wide", meaning items with a known broad appeal, so that liquidity is immediately available.
The yields from hard asset portfolio's are only garnered at sale, so you can't both keep it and have the return in hand. Unless you own a museum.

For most of us, our stuff will be sold at a loss by familiy members that want the cash, and for far less than we hoped for to people that are our friends.

Had a carrion sale at our gunclub last week, I missed the feasting. (or was it fleecing?)

Investment ????
Remember that gun you bought in 1960 for $300 ? If you take inflation into account you would have to sell it for $2200 today in order to just get your original "investment" back .
I tend to think guns maintain their value rather than increase in value .

Provenance, for cat's sake! Providence is in Rhode Island.

jack

My wife, who is a museum tough guy (three published books on registrarial method and practise) tells me that "provenience" is also used in some trades, such as archaeology. Providence is when you find the "greater fool" who really wants your last mistake.

jack

I think the correct term your searching for here is provenance which is the documented history of ownership of an item. For example; I have an antique "Queen Anne" period piece of furniture with a provenance going back to the original owner in the 1760s.
Jim

I have never sold a Parker for less than I paid. I have never had to send a Parker to a gunsmith. My "investment template" is as follows:

(1) Less is more. A collection should not exceed 10 shooters plus, maybe, 10 wallhangers, if you collect both. No one can really grasp more than 10 guns at one viewing session. More than 20 representative examples is an accumulation.

(2) Know your wants and needs so you don't go off half-cocked. There are plenty of good-condition shooting-man's Parkers always for sale, but if you are in it for, say, an all-original high-condition "Parker Story" grade CH(E) gun in any gauge (especially one the small bores), you better do your homework. I have had my feelers out since 1997 for a late-model (post-1925) AH (no ejectors, please) 12-bore, 28- or 30-inch, with a straight grip in 70% case colors or above with all-original condition, but no luck. Picking and choosing among the scarce guns with flur de lis drop points can take time, or compromises...

(3) Be a cash buyer; use cash as a club to not pay too much. You cannot go to a gun show and offer $5,000 for a gun with a $7,500 price and expect the seller to take an out-of-state check.

(4) Buy only original-condition shooters you absolutely love (high original condition is closer to new); a gun advertised as "New by DelGrego" or "New by Turnbull" is not new, any more so than a car is "New by MAACO" by virtue of having a new coat of paint. (These people are friends of mine and do good restoration work, but a gun restored because it needs it is not new by any common understanding of the word.)

(6) Compromise on grade and maybe slightly less case colors in original condition, but do not buy a gun in anticipation of flipping it when you find something better. Buy only to own for a long time. It is always easy to buy, but more difficult to sell, and when it is time to sell, high original condition trumps all else. Winchester rifles and Colt revolvers may bring big prices because of storied ownership, but Parkers that have brought high prices because of ownership provenance can be counted on the fingers of one thumb.

(7) I have always preferred to buy from among the "usual suspects," being well-known dealers. I have never had a negative experience with these people. Those who troll the Internet auctions should add something as an "insurance reserve" to the price they pay to make up for the potential hassle and risk. In the final analysis, almost all the truly "investment" quality Parkers are well-owned and will sell to or through first rate dealers or at one of the top auction houses. These people make a living moving good guns and they are due their commissions...

(8) From strictly a Parker gun standpoint, I expect the "usual suspects" will have sufficient inventory at the Pintail Point Vintage Cup next weekend to satisfy most wants and needs. Jim Julia has an auction a week later (Oct.6) with at least 44 Parkers cataloged. Forty-four is a magic number for me; when I started to get interested in earnest in 1993 I called HC for his list by mail, and when I got it there were 44 Parkers on it...I called in disbelief and asked if he really had so many on hand, and he said that he was always turning inventory, but, yes, he had at least that many. I loaded my Volvo S/W with my wife and Choc. Lab and drove 1,100 miles to Terrel TX...and now I think I know something about the "Old Reliable." Follow my advice and your purchased guns (Parkers or other well-respected makers) will be an "investment." EDM

I have never sold a Parker for less than I paid. I have never had to send a Parker to a gunsmith. My "investment template" is as follows:

(1) Less is more. A collection should not exceed 10 shooters plus, maybe, 10 wallhangers, if you collect both. No one can really grasp more than 10 guns at one viewing session. More than 20 representative examples is an accumulation.

(2) Know your wants and needs so you don't go off half-cocked. There are plenty of good-condition shooting-man's Parkers always for sale, but if you are in it for, say, an all-original high-condition "Parker Story" grade CH(E) gun in any gauge (especially one the small bores), you better do your homework. I have had my feelers out since 1997 for a late-model (post-1925) AH (no ejectors, please) 12-bore, 28- or 30-inch, with a straight grip in 70% case colors or above with all-original condition, but no luck. Picking and choosing among the scarce guns with flur de lis drop points can take time, or compromises...

(3) Be a cash buyer; use cash as a club to not pay too much. You cannot go to a gun show and offer $5,000 for a gun with a $7,500 price and expect the seller to take an out-of-state check.

(4) Buy only original-condition shooters you absolutely love (high original condition is closer to new); a gun advertised as "New by DelGrego" or "New by Turnbull" is not new, any more so than a car is "New by MAACO" by virtue of having a new coat of paint. (These people are friends of mine and do good restoration work, but a gun restored because it needs it is not new by any common understanding of the word.)

(6) Compromise on grade and maybe slightly less case colors in original condition, but do not buy a gun in anticipation of flipping it when you find something better. Buy only to own for a long time. It is always easy to buy, but more difficult to sell, and when it is time to sell, high original condition trumps all else. Winchester rifles and Colt revolvers may bring big prices because of storied ownership, but Parkers that have brought high prices because of ownership provenance can be counted on the fingers of one thumb.

(7) I have always preferred to buy from among the "usual suspects," being well-known dealers. I have never had a negative experience with these people. Those who troll the Internet auctions should add something as an "insurance reserve" to the price they pay to make up for the potential hassle and risk. In the final analysis, almost all the truly "investment" quality Parkers are well-owned and will sell to or through first rate dealers or at one of the top auction houses. These people make a living moving good guns and they are due their commissions...

(8) From strictly a Parker gun standpoint, I expect the "usual suspects" will have sufficient inventory at the Pintail Point Vintage Cup next weekend to satisfy most wants and needs. Jim Julia has an auction a week later (Oct.6) with at least 44 Parkers cataloged. Forty-four is a magic number for me; when I started to get interested in earnest in 1993 I called HC for his list by mail, and when I got it there were 44 Parkers on it...I called in disbelief and asked if he really had so many on hand, and he said that he was always turning inventory, but, yes, he had at least that many. I loaded my Volvo S/W with my wife and Choc. Lab and drove 1,100 miles to Terrel TX...and now I think I know something about the "Old Reliable." Follow my advice and your purchased guns (Parkers or other well-respected makers) will be an "investment." EDM