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Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Dec 2006
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Hi all, does anyone have any info on this maker and his guns?
Thanks for any help!!!
All the best!
Greg
Gregory J. Westberg MSG, USA Ret
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Sidelock
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Sidelock
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Greg, Otto Bock is a well known Berlin gunmaker (in a broad sense, maybe only dealer) from early 20th cent. He held the title of Royal Court Supplier. I'm quite sure Raimey will have more on him. BTW I can't find him in Der Neue Stockel so he was probably not active in 19th cent. With kind regards, Jani
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Sidelock
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Sidelock
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P.S.: According to numerous sources Otto Bock developed and/or introduced the 9.3x62mm big game cartridge for Mauser rifles in about 1905. This round is still very much alive, as is its rimmed version 9.3x74R, popular with modern DR makers and users (9.3x74R was developed a bit earlier and not by Bock as far as I know, but both cartridges are very similar in ballistics and use same bullets). -Jani
Last edited by montenegrin; 08/25/09 03:29 PM.
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Sidelock
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Sidelock
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Thanks for the vote of confidence Jani. I’ve had a couple requests for info on Otto Bock but I’ve been concentrating on other Berlin makers up until now. I can’t seem to find a continuous thread on info on the gunmaker Otto Bock. There’s book dealer Otto Bock and 20th century German prosthetist Otto Bock. I’ve found a listing of an Otto Bock as a forester in the early 1860s and for now I think this to be the gunmaking Otto Bock or maybe his father. If this is true, he would have been born in the early 1840s. Some of his examples are on the Lefaucheux action so he would have been active at least by the 1880s, possibly later if the Lefaucheux action was the only solution for his unique longarms. At some point, and I don’t know how yet, he became a well established purveyor to a royal court and I think this to be that of German Emperor Wilhelm I(Emperor H.M.?), http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wilhelm_I,_German_Emperor . He could have been supplier to Wilhelm II, who had some sort of palsy. Some info notes him as being a well established supplier/purveyor to the Kaiser. Bock is noted to have been Kaiserlich und Königliche Hoflieferanten of Berlin and I’d like to see a trade label if anyone has one. He is usually listed with an address as Otto Bock, Konigl. Hoflieferant, Berlin W. 8, Kroenstrasse 7, 8 or 9. He may also have been an engineer and around the time he developed the 9.3X62(circa 1905) that Jani mentions and Bock was active in exhibits and the like such as the 1904 Saint Louis(U.S. of A.) International Exhibition where he may have received a gold medal, http://books.google.com/books?id=s41eqTq...lin&f=false , which also is connected to the Forestry industry. He was listed in catalogues as a firearms supplier as well as stuffed animals??( jagdwaffen, ausgestopfte präparate). Here, http://www.springerlink.com/content/k84k4423373l77g7/ , an article notes he was a Geweibhändler??(antler supplier??) . I can’t say if this is the gunmaker Otto Bock or not. Someone fluent in German, Jani maybe, is going to have to make sense of it. He may have been close friends with Ludwig Schiwy and may have used Recknagel as a component source. Early on, he may have built a few longarms like the Mauser O/U 8mm(or other cartridge) over 16 bore. I’ve seen some info suggesting that he made Mauser rifles for Zastava, but I’d like to see more info on it. He may have sourced Ludwig Loewe or DWM for Mauser actions, but for now I would say he sourced the craftsmen in Suhl when it when it was economical. It may have been that he was more of a designer/firearms merchant/supplier than a gunmaker but he is listed as a master gunsmith. He is sort of a mystery like some of the other German makers like W. Foerster and Heinrich Scherping. And his company may have been liquidated in 1933 or 1934? Kind Regards, Raimey rse
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Sidelock
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Sidelock
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Hi and thanks so much for the info. Very enlightening. I appreciate the help. Just a quick word or so on what Raimey stated about the last Kaiser (Wilhelm II). He did have his left arm damaged at birth that left this arm useless for his entire life. He did have however a very powerful right arm because of this. His handshake was almost bone crushing according to many who were on the receiving end. He like to play tricks on some people by turning his rings around and shaking their hands, thus causing some great pain. He was a very avid hunter, both big game and birds. He could and did shoot a shotgun one handed with ease. So perhaps Bock very well could have provided guns to Wilhelm II, I know that Purdey did. Again, thanks for the info. So...........what's your opinion on this Bock: http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.asp?Item=138274863All the best! Greg
Gregory J. Westberg MSG, USA Ret
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Joined: Apr 2005
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Sidelock
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Sidelock
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Raimey, Yes it certainly seems that our Otto was also a supplier of antlers and such - not a strange activity for a Berlin gun shop in those times.
Greg, I am not sure about the price but I surely like the looks of this hammer gun. Be sure to find out exactly about bore condition before placing a bid.
With kind regards, Jani
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Joined: Aug 2007
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Sidelock
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Sidelock
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Greg: He could have easily been a supplier to Kaiser W. II and have been born in the latter part of the 19th century but I haven't seen any examples that were altered for Kaiser W. II's use. They could be out there but I just haven't seen them. Now he was just a purveyor/supplier to the Emperor & King and he rode that advertising wave to peddle arms to the general public. He may have just been the antler supplier to the Royal Court???? I haven't found where he was top gun retailer/gunmaker to the Emperor & King, just supplier. Say that the was a purveyor to thte court in 1905, then using the age of 24 years for his master brief and a couple years to get the appointment, then he would have been born in the 1870s, but for now I think earlier. I don't know when the appointments to the Royal court dwindled, but I would guess most were in the 19th century.
On the gun, I would want to see the proof marks. This looks to be a sourced longarm and I don't think Otto Bock touched it except for being a supplier. I doubt it was made in Berlin. How would it sit with you if it was a Sauer, or Belgian, with his name roll stamped?
Kind Regards,
Raimey rse
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Sidelock
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Sidelock
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Jani: Here's a 1903 ref., info in sort of the raw state as I haven't taken the time to decipher or vet it: http://books.google.com/books?id=h_IWAAA...lin&f=false . Would you pleasure us with a translation?? Kind Regards,
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Sidelock
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Sidelock
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Hi guys and thanks!! I find these kinds of discussions most interesting. While I have no interest in the gun I posted above, it did catch my eye as a very clean hammer gun.
I really enjoy the discussions on this board, so much knowledge out there and it just increases my knowledge on double guns. That's why I'm ask about a certain maker or gun. This post in a case in point. I've learned a lot and I must say thanks again Jani and Raimey!!
All the best!
Greg
Gregory J. Westberg MSG, USA Ret
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Joined: Apr 2005
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Sidelock
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Sidelock
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Raimey, it says No preview available, and I cannot see any text to translate. But in any case Otto was a supplier of antlers, as you said before. - Jani
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