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Joined: Oct 2005
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Halvey Offline OP
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Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 103
Thought you guys may like to see this...

http://www.startribune.com/531/story/879359.html
Lead shot increasingly under fire
It apparently is a matter of time before the toxic substance is restricted for upland hunters. The Department of Natural Resources is examining and weighing the results of a citizens' committee report as it considers the matter.
By Doug Smith, Star Tribune

Should lead shot, a toxic substance already banned for waterfowl hunters since 1991, also be banned for upland hunters? An 11-member citizens committee recently examined the issue for the Department of Natural Resources and last week released its 70-page report. Bill Penning, DNR farmland wildlife program leader and liaison to the group, discusses the issue.
Q Why was the committee formed?

A There's a lot going on on the national level right now. Numerous states are discussing implementing nontoxic shot regulations above and beyond existing federal regulations for waterfowl. Some, like South Dakota, already have done that. Lead shot there is banned on almost all public lands. We know it's toxic to humans and wildlife. Missouri studies show it's killing doves. It's an impor- tant issue that merits public discus- sion.

Q In Minnesota, lead shot for upland hunting is legal on state wildlife management areas but illegal on federal waterfowl production areas, which can cause confusion -- and citations -- for hunters. Did this situation help spur the discussions?

A Well, we do have state and federal areas that often are adjacent, which can be a problem. But the evidence and need for this has been building. We decided it was time to be proactive.

Q What was the group's goal?

A They were charged with coming up with recommendations. Everything was on the table, from taking no action to a total ban on lead shot. They didn't come up with one final recommendation saying, "DNR, this is what we think you should do." But we got some very useful information.

Q What did they recommend?

A They agreed unanimously that the DNR should regulate lead shot on managed public dove fields, which we did last year. And they said the DNR ultimately should implement some regulations that are more restrictive than current state and federal regulations.

Q The group also agreed on seven principles [see accompanying story], including that lead shot inevitably will have to be restricted for all shotgun hunting at some time in the future. That's a very blunt statement.

A It is. Everybody agreed to it. But how long that will take is open to debate. Some think it will be within five years; some think it will take 50 years.

Q The group ultimately came up with five options?

A Yes. We started with over 40 options and winnowed it down to five. We knew we were not going to have universal agreement on any one of those.

Q Will the DNR choose one of those options?

A We may or may not pick one of those as written. It may be some combination. We may phase something in. This is the first small step in generating broader public discussion and awareness of the issue.

Q Would you be surprised if any restrictions were implemented by next fall?

A Yes, I would.

Q Did the group consider lead bullets or slugs used by big-game hunters?

A No. The scope of this was shotgun hunting of upland species.

Q How would banning lead shot affect hunters with older-vintage shotguns?

A It used to be that steel shot could score the barrels of older guns, but the new nontoxic loads have shot-cups with thick plastic; the shot doesn't come in contact with the barrel walls. I shoot steel with an 1898 Parker and a 1948 L.C. Smith.

Q Why did you switch to all nontoxic shot?

A It was a personal decision. I have three young kids who eat wild game, and I didn't want to feed them lead. It was a no-brainer for me.

Q So how long before we see more lead-shot restrictions?

A I don't know. The DNR has not made any decision yet. There are a lot of factors, including politics -- and we're getting a new DNR commissioner. But personally I think we'll move forward on this issue and that it will be a matter of years rather than decades.

The committee's report is available online at http://www.startribune.com/a2075.


http://www.startribune.com/531/story/879453.html
The 11-member Nontoxic Shot Advisory Committee agreed on several principles, including:
•It's inevitable that lead shot must be restricted for all shotgun hunting at some future time.

•Lead shot restrictions should be phased in over time.

•The regulations should be simple, understandable and enforceable.

The group narrowed a list of 40 options to five that the DNR could consider banning lead shot for:

•Dove hunting on public and private lands statewide.

•Hunting all small game on all public lands in the state's farmland zone.

•Hunting all small game on all public and private lands in the farmland zone.

•Hunting all small game on all state wildlife management areas.

•Hunting all small game on all public and private lands statewide.

Joined: Jan 2002
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Halvey,

Thanks for the link. I have been wanting to reload shotshells for a while now. I think I am getting motivated.

Also, regarding the use of steel in the 1898 Parker and the 1948 Elsie - not an expert - but doesn't the steel hurt the barrels because of the hardness of the shot regardless of the shot-cup?

I am curious for others to chime in on this. I think the combination of speed above 1200fps and pressure greater than 8,000 combined might have damaging effect to stock head, barrels, etc.

Duke

Last edited by Randy Duke; 12/19/06 07:11 PM.

Work as if you were to live a hundred years. Pray as if you were to die tomorrow. Benjamin Franklin
Joined: Apr 2002
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Buy your own land, and do what you want - I do!
Never a soul, has ever looked over my shoulder to see what I'm doing.
The one and only agent is just glad that some of us, keep our land wild.
I could touch-off a punt gun on the lake without a worry matey.

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I live in an area that as mined lead since the Romans invaded Britain.
I understand that the ingestion of lead can cause madness.
Well let me tell you Sirs that the only madness that I suffer from is these crass, stupid people that foist there opinions, theories and ideology upon me without first getting their facts right.We do not have a higher incidence of mental health problems here, than anywhere else, despite having our drinking and bathing water flowing through lead pipes.
When we were asked to stop using lead shot over wetlands we were represented by the National shooting organisation that said it supported the ban on lead shot providing an effective alternative was found to lead by the time the ban was implemented.
More than ten years later we do not have that alternative available, that is as efficient at despatching birds, that is as cheap, that is readily available.
I am not convinced that lead is as problematical as the do-gooders would like to have us believe.

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Lead is a health risk, but you can legally buy any drug you want on the streets of Amsterdam. Get rid of the Socialists in Europe and Brittian and you will sovle your lead problem.


-Shoot Straight, IM
Joined: Feb 2005
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I think we are just a few steps away from having lead shot banned at sporting clay ranges, unless clubs take a more proactive stand in controlling the possible contamination problem on their respective ranges.
Banning lead shot would be the death of the shotgun shooting sports. Is this a place where the NRA could step in and reason with these folks

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eeb Offline
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The health issue associated with lead is simply a red herring. It is gun control by another name. Daniel Patrick Moynihan was quoted once as saying (to paraphrase) "forget banning the guns because there are too many of them, ban the ammo."

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I'm pretty familiar with South Dakota politics, and must confess doubt that South Dakota's lead shot restrictions on lands open to public hunting are connected with an effort to ban guns there.

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Don't want to hijack from the main discussion but can't help comment that the level of alarmism, agitprop and disinformation concerning guns and gun-related issues is disturbing. Recent report stateside radio (perhaps NPR) raised horrifying spectre of bank robbed at gunpoint with AK-47 apparently shipped to CONUS by Iraqui war vet standing down. Reported rate of fire 750 rnds per minute. Those of you who have inverted a few lashed up banana mags or watched a barrel start to squirm will find this far-fetched but those inclined to believe, will.

jack

Joined: Mar 2006
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There is a news item I read in the Detroit News today on line under the Google for guns in America or such in which they are VERY alarmed about flawed guns getting into the hands of our citizens. The article is nothing shout of lies and distortion propagated to help the anti gun lobby. We have an up hill fight on our hands and the new Democratic congress is going to throw us some hard balls!! David

Last edited by David Hamilton; 12/20/06 05:12 PM.
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