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Originally Posted By: TwiceBarrel
Originally Posted By: L. Brown

Straight from McIntosh, on Fox barrel-making: "But just as frames take time to file and finish, so do barrels, and the hand-work needed to strike a set of heavy tubes into a pair of lightweight barrels could eat up a sizeable chunk of company profit." Right . . . they just hammered away, costing the company more worker time, which = money. Why not just start with the correct weight tubes in the first place?



Hey Larry what do you want the workforce to do when they don't have the proper materials to do the job as efficiently as planned? Are they supposed to sit around on their butts waiting for the next batch of proper weight barrels to show up? Come on Larry think


TB, you're trying to make something fairly simple into rocket science. You yourself have suggested that Sterlingworths weren't custom ordered guns. Well, some of them were . . . but most certainly were not. Therefore, the guys putting them together had a simple solution available which did not involve spending a lot of time hammering barrels: If you have heavy barrels, match them to a stock with denser, heavier wood. Voila: heavier gun . . . but one that still BALANCES quite well. Reverse also true: match lightweight barrels to lighter stock wood. That is, unless you think maybe a whole lot of Foxes have really p*ss poor balance. (I don't.) Somebody special orders a light gun, I suppose it's possible they'd do some work on heavy tubes if that's all they had. Or they could wait (not likely that long, given the fact that, with the exception of one year, even during the Depression of the 30's they were making at least 2,000 12ga Sterlingworths/year) for lighter tubes.

The above is why I suggested you conduct the same experiment I have (weighing barrels and forend, comparing to stock and receiver), because it would clearly establish in your brain that you don't just mix those elements willy-nilly. Unless maybe you want, as a result, a gun with the handling characteristics of a 2 x 4. I don't believe that would've done good things for the guns' reputation.

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Originally Posted By: justin
L.Brown, Thanks for the advice. As you see from my post above I keep the pressure low. It's the shot charge that's vexing. My guns were all built pre 1898 and are proofed for the 1oz loads poular at that time. I don't think I can nail a No Dakota pheasent to the ground with 1 oz of shot. So I shoot the 1&1/8 load and it seems to work. At least it keeps me from thinking about it when I pull the trigger. Justin


Justin, I have a couple 1930's vintage Brit guns, Army & Navy (made by Scott), 2 1/2". Most of the time, I just shoot the Kent Gamebore Pure Gold 1 1/16 oz loads. But here's a reload, straight out of the Alliant book, that I've used in my tight barrel (or when the birds are flushing farther out in general) with excellent results:

Fed Gold Medal hull, Fed primer, Fed 12S3 wad. 22.5 grains Unique. That'll push 1 1/8 oz shot at 1200 fps, pressure 7300 psi. Or, if you can live with a bit less velocity (1145 fps), use the same hull and wad, Rem primer, 20.5 grains Green Dot. 6800 psi.

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What is it that they say about teaching a pig to sing? I give up. You are hopelessly full of misinformation.

Last edited by TwiceBarrel; 08/13/09 03:58 PM.
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What's with all the "hammering"? You guys don't like filing? do re me fa so la te oink? I had the impression from somewhere that barrel blanks were forged, needing only final bore, chambering, exterior fairing and fitting. Are you referring to the mysterious activity of "hard fitting"? Those little tippy taps wouldn't reduce wgt.

jack




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shoot ammo the gun was designed for and you cannot go wrong. ed


keep it simple and keep it safe...
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Originally Posted By: L. Brown

You yourself have suggested that Sterlingworths weren't custom ordered guns. Well, some of them were


What are you calling "custom ordered" ?....a certain barrel length.

I'm not a Fox man but from what I've saw of them I suspect only their higher grades were "custom ordered"....and even then I doubt if many were ever fitted to the buyer.

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L.,thanks for the recipes. Since you mentioned Scott,and my Monte Carlo has the Scott cross bolt I wonder what the efficacy of the third biteor cross bolt has on the wear of the gun?
This is also a ploy to get you guys to stop scratching at each other about Foxes. Justin

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You should've asked if blOw-torch case coloring effected the integrity of the steel in shotgun actions ?

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Ya know jOe I've always wondered about the effect the case coloring process has on old actions,and I never heard of someone doing it with a blow-torch. Doesn't sound good.

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Jack, here's McIntosh's quote. I should've used "striking" rather than hammering: " . . . the hand-work needed to strike a set of heavy tubes into a pair of lightweight barrels could eat up a sizeable chunk of company profit."

TB, I'm not sure about KS, but up here in Iowa, we eat our pigs. We don't worry about teaching them to sing. If you didn't spend so much time giving vocal lessons to swine, you might develop a greater understanding of some fairly basic and simple concepts concerning shotguns. Like when the factory is turning out 40 or more 12ga Sterlingworths per week, it's not likely that all the barrels they're working with are all heavy or all light. From McIntosh, again:

"In a shop where guns are made largely by hand, the forgings may all be the same size, regardless of what size and weight the finished piece might be, but for production guns there is an obvious advantage in having components machined to several sizes. The nearer the components are to finished size, the less hand-work required." We talk about all the "hand-work" involved in building the American classic doubles, and there certainly was a good bit of that. But they were basically machine-made, hand-FINISHED guns. They came out of real, honest to goodness factories . . . unlike, say, most British doubles.

Joe, you could get barrels from 26-32" on any gauge Sterlingworth. And although each barrel length had "standard" chokes, you could custom order any choke you wanted, no additional charge. Certainly the vast majority of Sterlingworths were bought "off the rack", but from any of the makers of classic American doubles, you could custom order just about anything you wanted: specify a weight, nonstandard stock dimensions, etc.

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