doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com Trading for an English gun, help.

The best investment at this time is in books and lots of them. Start with Akehurst and don't stop till you are past Thomas. There is a world of info. out there you need to know before you can responsibly spend 20k or more.

$20K will buy you a "significantly used" Purdey/H&H/Boss/Woodward. "Slightly used" is $30K. A $20K BV1 gun may have a few small warts, but is reasonably economically fixable. The catch is that you have to buy a gun worth $20K, and not every gun priced at $20K is a $20K gun.

Great thread! I can only wish now that I had had as much education as is available for free in this thread before I purchased my first British shotgun. It would have saved me some significant bucks..........probably enough to have bought a couple more very nice guns over the years. Thanks guys!

PS I'm still not sure that the original poster understands exactly what "in proof" means. No put down intended but it is very important to have that concept well in mind.

By the way, the guy looking for the Purdey for $20,000 had a bunch of guns sent to him.

They all came from top dealers and every seller assured him that these Purdeys were in great shape.

Upon inspection, they all had major issues.

Buyer beware.

OWD

The gunning world isn't what it use to be - your Hussey might be the best gun on a odd day on the moors. Those sports are now shooting Spanish knock-offs and Brownings(yuck)!
The gents with Purdeys and such are in old folks homes with drool-cups and wearing pads.

And their Purdy's bedside at the ready!

I watched a very nice Purdey Live Pigeon 12 leave Charlton Hall Auctions unsold last December with a high bid of $18,000. I believe that Dig & I agreed that the gun had no issues.

Best Regards, George

A bit of reading (Birmingham Proof House site is good) will help explain "proof" and "in proof" better than one post but here goes:

A gun is in proof if its chambers are, its bore is no more than a few thousandths different from, and it gauge is as indicated by the information given in the proof marks on the barrel flats.

The chambers should measure 2.5 inches based on what you have described but not been able to show in a picture.

Look at GJZ's photo to get an idea, confirm what you see on yours, etc. (Like his 12 over a "c" in the diamond explains the gauge at proofing.)

Opening up chokes will also take a gun out of proof as I read the provisions.

If done in the UK, sleeved barrels are so marked at the time of proof.

This gives you an idea why evaluating proof and current condition is important.

Having a gunsmith schooled in English bests look at your gun, take the appropriate measurements and give them to you would be a tremendous help in selling your piece. For example, such a professional would have been able to tell you that the barrels were replacements.

That isn't a bad site to read. Probably the best coverage for British proof of shotguns is in the back of Brown's "British Gunmakers, Volume II". It's important to understand each mark, but that barely gets you started. When there is an issue, you won't catch the easy ones. What's most important to understand is how the collection of marks is used as a system, and what changed each time new rules of proof were promulgated. I've never really found a reference work that does that well. It takes practice. Make note of the proof marks on every English gun you pick up, and see if you understand them without the book, then check. I've never found a dealer that was really expert on them.

Once you get the hang of it, you'll understand that sometimes marks that are missing tell you what you need to know better than the marks that are there. With this Hussey, the question was re-proof of original barrels, or new proof of new barrels. The Re-proof Mark was absent, which rules out re-proof of original barrels.

British proof is actually pretty simple, but if you need a book, you need help, and it's important to understand the marks on the gun before you buy.

I concur on Brown's book. Dig H. touches on the topic as well. Time spent with someone schooled in this would be invaluable at a gun show or shop to point out the nuances you mention. It's all in the proof information and any deviations once the bores are determined to be sound.