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Forums10
Topics38,481
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Most Online1,335
Apr 27th, 2024
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Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 2,736 Likes: 96
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 2,736 Likes: 96 |
Stallones, that Moore I had was among a batch of old scrappers that I got from someone in order to de-activate as wall pieces; it didn't need a practiced eye to show it was a fake. It was often the better known makers that were forged. No doubt yours will be genuine as you would soon spot the deception. Some guns marked W.Richards will be of that firm from Liverpool and Preston and will be good guns. W.Richards is still in business and the owner says he gets a lot of queries, especially from the States, about 'his' guns and as he has full records he has to disappoint quite a few people. I saw a gun recently marked J. Pardey!
Homeless Joe, that Greener that you put the link to is no more a Greener that I am and if someone is preparred to bid $2,800 then there is no hope for them. I have a Greener forgery marked W.J.Greenen The Strand, London which believe it or not is of quite good quality and almost certainly made by C.J.Bonehill of Birmingham and finished by someone who thought it necessary to fool the buyer. I will post some pictures of it tomorrow. Forged gun collecting could become an art in itself and none too expensive either. Lagopus.....
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Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 15,456 Likes: 86
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 15,456 Likes: 86 |
Any gun marked "London Fine Twist", "London Fine Damascus" or "Fine Damascus Steel" on the barrel rib is suspicious in my book...
Proof marks can easily be faked but quality cannot to the trained eye.
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Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 433
Member
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Member
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 433 |
Proof marks can easily be faked
If you mean faked well enough to fool a knowledgeable person, well, maybe. But they almost never are.
"Serious rifles have two barrels, everything else just burns gunpowder."
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Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 1,815 Likes: 4
Sidelock
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OP
Sidelock
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 1,815 Likes: 4 |
I now believe this was John Manton . The proof marks are Birmingham,not London as seen below. The gun does not have rebounding hammers and appears to be early 1870's to me. Also the barrels are laminated,not Fine Damascus as engraved on the rib. 
Last edited by Stallones; 05/30/09 04:36 PM.
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Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 9,417 Likes: 314
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 9,417 Likes: 314 |
I found this pic in my files Leighton, but couldn't find the pic of the top rib which I believe was 'J. Manton London.' Note the 'W?' on the bottom rib that looks like your 'W'. 
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Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 1,815 Likes: 4
Sidelock
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OP
Sidelock
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 1,815 Likes: 4 |
Amazing
Drew,the initials are FW and on the Rib is J.Manton- London also.
Boothroyds book indicated that John Manton's wife formed a partnership with a Charles Coe after John died in 1854 and lasted until 1878 which would be the period these two would have been made. Interesting stuff!
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Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 2,736 Likes: 96
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 2,736 Likes: 96 |
Pictures of a Greener forgery marked W.J.Greenen, The Strand, London in gothic script on the top rib. The action is a Bonehill/ Mathews patent top lever cocking action and almost certainly the work of C.G.Bonehills. Looks like someone bought the action and finished the job and added a spurious name to try to trade on the more famous W.W.Greener. I think that the gun was intended for the foreign market as it has sling swivels on the barrel and the one in the stock having been removed, something very rarely seen on an English game gun. The 'game scene' engraving is most odd in that it depicts cranes and palm trees! It is still of good quality so why pass it off as someone elses work is the mystery. It is a non-ejector having been built around 1881. The original stock would look good on any gun. Anyway, here goes: Lagopus.....  
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Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 15,456 Likes: 86
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 15,456 Likes: 86 |
Not sure I'm following you...what makes it a forgery ?
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Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 1,232
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 1,232 |
George,
He said the proofs were London.
DLH
Out there at the crossroads molding the devil's bullets. - Tom Waits
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Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 15,456 Likes: 86
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 15,456 Likes: 86 |
George,
He said the proofs were London.
DLH Take the time to read alittle closer and you'll see he recanted that.
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