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Utah:

Is it a double rife? Also are the initials "L.P." stamped on the left tube near lower rib just ahead of the flats?

Kind Regards,

Raimey
rse

Last edited by ellenbr; 05/20/09 07:28 PM.
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Raimey,

It is not my shotgun and I have moved away from the owner in Utah so no additional pictures are available.

It is a .410



Mike
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I should restate that. I have additional pictures, but I no longer have access to the gun for more or higher resolution.

Clair Kofoed wrote an article about this gun for SSM and may have some hi-rez pictures of it.


Mike
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This is the last of the pictures that I have of the flats.





Mike
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ah, 10,4mm, 0.410": why didn't I think of that. I assume those are as rare as hens teeth? Looks like ole Richard Schuler and there's a faint stamp of what looks to be Krupp. Is it a post WWI? There still appears to be a set of initials near the rib but I can't make it out for now.

Kind Regards,

Raimey
rse

Last edited by ellenbr; 05/20/09 08:08 PM.
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Raimey,

I don't know much about it. I just asked the right guy if he had any nice Side by Sides in the back. I posted here and Clair followed up.

It was pawned in the mid '50's to the same shop that still owns it. It came in with a busted buttstock so it has been restocked. Story has it that the 'pawn'y' was a Wesson, and related to the Wesson's of S&W. I tried to buy it and was rejected. As I understand, Clair also made an offer and was rejected. I imagine it won't come up on the market any time soon. Or it's been sold already. Hell, I don't know, I moved a long way away.

The owner is well aware of its rarity and value. He told me that for the money it would bring, he has a nice shogun so why sell. He used to shoot skeet with it occassionally. I don't know if he still does.

Last edited by Utah Shotgunner; 05/20/09 08:31 PM.

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Originally Posted By: Ken Georgi
I am away from the full data base right now, but from what I have in front of me I can report that the following initials have been reported on Prussian Dalys:

R.S. *
E.E. *
K.S. *
J.W *
L.G (or E.G)
A.B. *
M.S.
L.E.
A.S.


(Please remember that because much of this data has been reported and not personally observed, I cannot vouch for the accuracy. Also remember that due to the nature of the stamping process, some of the stamps are hard to read - what one person reports as "A.S.", may actually be "A.B". I've noted with an asterisk above those initials that have been reported more than once.)

Ken




Here's a work in progress with best guesses for now. Most of the craftsmen have an association with some barrel making aspect or metal working:

R.S. – Robert Schlegelmilch pre-WWI and Richard Schuler or Robert Schilling

E.E. – Emil Eckholdt beginning in 1876, at some point used “EES”- Emil Eckholdt Suhl

K.S. Karl(?) Schlegelmilch, factory owner or something of the like. Some of the klan made bicycles

J.W. – Julius Will of Oskar Will commencing in 1844 with metalworking-
Venuswaffenwerk, Post WWII there was a J. Wilhelm and an O. Wilhelm both which were barrel makers

L.G. – Louis Graner of Zella-Mehlis very little info or connection to metal working
Listed for time period and initials


A.B. – August Blatt was definitely active circa WWI and was in full swing at WWII
Barrel maker who at some point used “ABA” – August Blatt Albrechts

M.S. – Moritz Schilling or Max Schilling(Fabrikant/manufacture in 1907),

L.E. – ????

A.S. – Alfred Schilling(1876-1947) Zella St. Blasii son of Veit Schilling(1839-1898)


W.M. – Wilhelm Moritz of Zella St. Blasii beginning in 1869, a stamp of crossed hammer or tools with a bishop atop with the W & M intergrated is attributed to him

I don’t think the following would apply:
Wilhelm Mauser expired in 1882 and Waffenfabrik Mauser formed in 1884
Waffenwerke Mehlis – Valentin Bader & father Louis Bader

Well, with the early 1890s date of "E.Sch." that might just negate my theory of "Max Sch." for Max Schleenstein and "E.Sch." for Ernst Schleenstein unless there was a father or uncle with the name E. Schleestein during an earlier period. And the only other clan that I know of for now with a similar combination of names would be the Schneider folk of Zella St. Blasii being Eduard Schneider during the 1890s and Max Schneider from the
1920s onward

I'm sure there are some unidentified craftsmen that we may never now their names.
I would also expect to see some of the following:

August Ansorg, pre-WWI to WWII
Wilhelm Richards Jaeger – circa 1910 to WWII
Kelber – Louis or Wilhelm – post WWI
Klett – F.A. or Heinrich Christoph
Reitz & Recknagel(1867) - Someone from this group

Kind Regards,

Raimey
rse

Last edited by ellenbr; 05/22/09 11:32 PM.
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Raimey,

That is a very impressive list. I am glad to see that you posted so that others can help augment or verify it.

Pete

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Raimey,

You've been busy! I should have some time to dig in the database and pull together information on the respective years when Dalys with the initials listed above were produced. My apologies for the delays - work and family life have been a little crazy lately.

One comment on the "E.SCH" initials. Unlike the two letter initial combinations listed above these initials are NOT found just ahead of the barrel flats but rather on the action. The mark can be faint and you have to look carefully into the space beneath lump, but the initials are often found there encased in an oval. My assumption was that this was the mark of the actioner.

More to follow - superior work Raimey,

Ken

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Thanks. I had most of the information with the exception of an actual list of initials for Lindner longarms. Regarding the Schillings & Schlegelmilch klans, recently I was attempting to track what they did. But there were at least two different sets of Schlegelmilchs in the porcelain business in the 1880-1890 period when the bicycle craze began and one was Reinhold Schelgelmilch who used a "R.S." mark on his wares. And then on the weapons side there was Reinhard Schelgelmilch who was a gunsmith in the post WWI-WWII period. So when you look in the listings and directories one generally sees "Fabrikant" or "Fabrikbesitzer"(factory owner) for say Karl Schlegelmilch and Gebhard Schilling for example. Now this puzzle is all time dependent and I fear unless some subcontractor info surfaces, it may indeed be a rabbit chase. At the turn of the 20th Century, everyone knew everyone and why was there a need to exactly chronicle the tasks performed, and by whom, and they just knew that someone 100 years later would not be going over the info with a fine toothed comb.

Ken you are correct on the odd "E.SCH" stamp and I at first thought it to be a post WWI/tube mechanization type stamp. I still lean toward the Schleenstein folk because of their assocation with Krieghoff.

I know that it is a task and possibly a labour of love, but if the initials were arranged or grouped in chronological order it provide another equation for the lot. Also has any tube stamp info been collected on the Golcher/U.S. of A.(or others of Germanic origin) longarms similar to a Lindner?

I would be very suprised if one example didn't have a gothic or script "J" stamp on the tubes.

Kind Regards,

Raimey
rse

Last edited by ellenbr; 05/23/09 09:10 AM.
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