doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion Double Rifles, Paradox Guns & Gauge Rifles @ doublegunshop.com Adams .577

I'm trying to decipher a mangled proofmark. This gun only has a 1925 London view mark on the watertable, a patent #1507 just ahead of the barrel flats, the mangled mark and what I think is the bore size stamped on each barrel 26. From the lack of proofs I would think that this gun did not get an original set and was reproofed after 1925, but there is no caliber, chamber length or anything. Strange! Can anyone determine what this proofmark is? I think its the London GP under rampant lion. If so it's the only proofmark on the gun that is prior to 1925. Thanks

[url="http://www.hunt101.com/?p=455624&c=544&z=1"][/url]

[url="http://www.hunt101.com/?p=455625&c=544&z=1"][/url]

Hi Mike, looks like the Lion-over-GP to me.

Mike:

The mark shown is the London Provisional Proof Mark, used since 1813. It has nothing to do with definitive proof, and is not stamped at the same time.

I'm confused about your other comments though. There is no such thing as a "1925" London view mark. The crown over V view mark was in use from the 1600s to February, 1955, and never changed. If there is no case length mark, then it wasn't proved under the 1925 rules. Indeed, especially with rifles, the case length mark is the easy way to distinguish 1925 rule marks from those of the 1904 rules as it wasn't introduced until 1925.

The presence of the view mark indicates that other definitive proof marks were also present, because the view mark wasn't used alone. Normally, there would be a view mark on each side of the water table, and one on each barrel flat. The Provisional Proof mark you see on each barrel was stamped there when the individual rough tubes were proved prior to them being used to make the gun, not when the completed gun was definitively proved. Assuming this gun was originally built as a breechloader, if there are view marks on the water table and no other definitive marks on the barrels, then this gun did go through definitive proof at some time and part of the marks are no longer there. That leaves only two choices I can think of. Either the flats have been struck off at some time, obliterating the marks, or the barrels are not original and have not been properly proved. Either would be odd.

Nitro, my proofmark book said that the V under crown was a 1925 view mark. There are view marks on both sides of the water table and each barrel just in front of the flats. There is absolutely nothing but the SN on the flats. The barrels are original damacus barrels with the maker's address almost worn off. I can just make out enough letters to piece it together. I don't know why it doesn't have any other proofmarks. I did import it from New Zealand but it should still have the proofmarks. It is odd.

Bore size of .577 has to be marked as 25.
25G is .571" and this plug easily go through the .577 bore.
Next plug 24G is .579

Mike:

Yes to what Geno said.

There are lots of books out there with bad information on British proof marks. I really struggled at first because I got hold of a couple. What your book says about the view mark is definitely wrong. The crown over V view mark dates back to the beginning of the Gunmakers Company in the 1600s and was in continuous use by the London Proof House until 2/1/55.

Sometimes the proof houses put the marks on the barrels in front of the flats instead of on the flats. If the view marks on the barrels are forward of the flats, then that's where the rest of the marks probably were. Additionally, if there are view marks on the barrels in addition to the water table, then the barrels DID go through definitive proof, and the rest of the marks have gotten struck off somehow.

Hope this helps.

Nitro all of the marks are in front of the barrel flat except for the SN. The bore size, the view mark and the patent number. These are spread over 2 1/2 inches from the flats forward. I don't see how any other marks could have been removed if these weren't. The book that I was using isn't my main proofmark book. I can't locate the other at the moment.

Mike:

Oh, so the bore size is present on the barrels? If so, and the view marks are also present, then the only thing missing is the definitive proof mark - crown over an intertwined "GP". For a DR from this period, that's all that should be there - Definitive Proof, View Mark, bore size, and the Provisional Proof Mark. Are you sure the crown/GP isn't there?