doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com Diggory digs American guns??? I don't know

Annie Oakley also shot some exhibitions with an Ithaca Grade 4 single trap, which is not exactly a plain gun.

Mr. Jones, you might come off better on your criticism concerning the spelling of Lefever . . . if you'd spelled the English gent's name correctly. It's Hadoke, not Haddock.

Where does the Stevens 311 fit into all of this?

L. Brown:

Sure, she shot "WHATEVER" the gun manufacturers' GAVE her, and lord, they gave her some fancy guns.....(but for serious competition, she used the same old guns)......Mentioned above were Parkers and now your Ithaca......L.C. Smith gave her a very fancy gold inlaid double 20.....with her name, facial likeness engraved on the side locks.....this gun was way out there.......but again, it was "free"......she actually sold it later which upset Hunter Arms Co.......to say the least..... A picture of this gun in it's full glory is available to view in the Col. Brophy, LC Smith book-bible......

Regards,

i believe englishmen refer to such guns as 'poacher grade' or bottom of the rung if you will.

Not quite, Jager. Those would be "keepers' guns", I believe. The keepers are the guys who try to catch the poachers.

PA, on her 50th birthday, Annie shot 98/100. How "serious" that was I don't know . . . but it was done with an Ithaca Single Trap. But we've already gotten past the point about plain vs higher grade guns. A plain gun may be just as good mechanically and just as reliable, but to say--for example--that a Parker VH is the equal of an A1 Special . . . certainly not in value, and certainly not in attention to detail, quality of materials used, etc. Note that I'm staying strictly within the "pecking order" of American guns, even from the same maker; not bringing in British guns whatsoever.

You're right.........the more money you throw at it, the more "ginger-bread" you get...........to me, there is a "very" fine line between enhanced and GAUDY......just my opinion and taste.......the middle eastern oil tycoons like everything gold plated and no space without engraving....and like some others around the world, they have enough to pay someone else to CARRY IT as well...??!!??.....Whatever floats your boat I guess.......do you like whitewall tires or not......take your pick......

Bye the way...it could not have been too serious if she missed two.....Annies ability was 100/100 consistently......maybe she was not used to the Ithaca ?? Probably just her birthday party ??.................

Regards,

Pretty much every American gun is the same inside from one grade to the next. A Parker VHE is all the gun the company ever built it just doesn't have all the window dressing. I shoot Parkers almost strickly and wouldn't have it any other way, but that is the truth.

DLH

what is the point of owning stevens 311? quite recently i had a choice between ole' model 12 25" 20ga in 60% conditon and nearly new 311 of same gauge, but the double was over $100 more. i mean the thing is worse handling then a good pump gun.

Using the book "Buffalo Bill's Wild West an American Legend" by R.L. Wilson and Greg Martin, as a reference, If you look at page 131 you will see that Annie was capable of having a very off day.
At Charles Lancaster's private grounds (in London), while shooting at Blue Rock pigeons she hit 5 out of 20. Here is a quote from her about the experience:

"I shot with an American gun all bedecked with gold, showing a gold figure of myself in the guard. The gun was about a three inch drop, not bad at that early date for a target gun, but for those little blue streaks of birds that made for the high stone wall like greased lightning-never.

After I shot at a string of 24 I could have been led home easily by a lingerie robbon."

Soon after she had Lancaster make her a new side by side, six pounds of weight , made to her measurements. She characterized the gun "perfection".

Annie had many guns, American and English, for different uses.

Lots of people have talked about British vs. American guns. Why doesn't someone put them in context. Compare the prices of the guns here in the US on a certain year. Try 1885 or 1900 or 1910 or the years after the war. That should give us a better basis on which to judge.