doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com Diggory digs American guns??? I don't know

We still have some misconceptions here.

First of all, prices: Drew, the equivalent of an Elsie Pigeon--Scott Monte Carlo B, also a hammerless sidelock--cost 44 pounds in 1906. Expect someone can convert that price, but I believe the pound was in the $4-5 range at that time. And that would not include, of course, the nearly 50% tariff mentioned above. As OWD said, that's why Brit gun sales dropped off significantly in this country in the 20th century, and why American doublegun makers did so well.



American guns were made for a different purpose than British guns. The Brits liked (and still do) light 12's as "game guns". The makers of American classic doubles sold far more 12's than anything else, but very few of them would fall into what the Brits would consider "game gun" configuration, mostly because they weigh too much. The British equivalent of something like a Fox, Parker, Elsie or Model 21 12ga would be a wildfowl model, designed mostly for shooting waterfowl. One of those will stand up to the same amount of abuse, with the same shot charges, as an American 12. Your light British game gun--of which I have a pair (nothing exotic--Army & Navy guns from the 30's, made by Webley and Scott)--are more the equivalent of American classic 16's. My guns, with 28" barrels, weigh a hair under 6 1/4#. They're proofed for 1 1/8 oz loads, but in fact, I shoot 7/8 oz through them for targets, and mostly 1 1/16 oz--the standard 2 1/2" Brit 12ga game load--for pheasants. (I sometimes use my own 1 1/8 oz low pressure reloads.) They're 75 years old and still in original proof. I shoot lots of targets with them, and since I got them over 3 years ago, I have killed something over 100 wild pheasants with them--not to mention some quail and prairie grouse. They will take it as well as will an EQUIVALENT American gun, when fed the proper ammunition. My guns are essentially the equivalent of about a Fox AE grade 16. Buy a couple of those and you'll pay as much--if not more--than you would for a couple light Brit 12's such as mine.

Dr. Charles Norris, who bequeathed one of his Purdeys to his friend George Bird Evans, shot Elsies before he bought his first Purdey. He praises them but says they're not as good as English guns. However, he also says that dollar for dollar, American doubles are the best value. On the used market, especially if you're talking high grade American doubles, I'm not sure that's true any longer. For one thing, if you get into the highest grade Elsies, Parkers and Foxes, there are not many out there. Rarity increases prices dramatically. On the other hand, after about 1900, everything Purdey made was a "best", as was every Boss, every Woodward, and every H&H Royal. So you've got far more high grade Brit guns to choose from than you do American guns, thus flipflopping the traditional price difference.

First of all, prices: Drew, the equivalent of an Elsie Pigeon--Scott Monte Carlo B, also a hammerless sidelock--cost 44 pounds in 1906. Expect someone can convert that price, but I believe the pound was in the $4-5 range at that time.