doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com Diggory digs American guns??? I don't know

wish i could relate, but at this point i'm praying that i still have a job few months from now. you know what happens when you loose health benefits and get seriously sick in america. cartboard box on side of the road, baby.

I am with Bill with his analysis of our respective appreciation of gun condition. However, I can only go so far with jingoism. My two favorite pigeon guns are an Elsie pigeon 32" and a Cashmore Nitro. The Elsie is a paragon of nostalgic virtues - the Cashmore is an extension of my hands. The Brits do have this fit thing down pretty well.

Both guns have their places, nothing is better than an English Sle for the field, nothing is more fun than the American brute.
Never a real fan of the standard Brummie - I'd take a AH Fox built Sterlingworth anyday.
Left out in the cold would be the Euros - they are neither fish nor fowl, wand or plow.

I don't see what the big deal is about Purdey and such? I have several American classics nothing to brag about but i sure is hell ain't going to kick a Optimus or A1 out of my bed for no Purdey or any other such gun.

I think i sense a bit of jealousy from reading Digs little writings! Me thinks he wishes they had more high original condtion examples. Too bad!

'Those that do, do it.Those that can't, write about it'
In my experience, journalists are the scum of the earth, a plague foisted on mankind to irritate and annoy.
Dig is an okay chap, who has chosen to swim with sharks, I hope he doesn't get eaten alive.
There are many fine American guns, ( let us all offer up a prayer for John Moses). There are many poor English guns.
The one deciding factor is that the British best is a work that has evolved due to the demand created by the Gentry in the pre-Great War (1914) and the live pigeon shooting fraternity where they demanded the 'Best' and so balance, function and form evolved.In the Frontier World at around the same time the operational word was 'Utility' and that I feel is what the American trade provided.
We have two entirely different products for two entirely different people.
Now let us not argue, let us all enjoy. Each to is own.
Diggory, you keep writing, I enjoy a good read.
Me? I'll just keep filing.

most of that ole' euro stuff with short cones, tight bores and chokes is next to worthless. london made sle is good for shootin' on the peg not available to most americans, but hardly suitable for our sport. engish snobs refer to our shooting as rough or rough shootin'. they dress better to go hunting then most of us wear to place of worship on sunday.
want to see something horrendous try english repeating sporting rifle DESIGNED and put together in england. their handguns suck too. their last truly great military rifle was the whitworth front loader, no?

A fella has to make a crust! I agree with him. Greener had this to say:-

The Gun and its Development (1910 edition) W.W. Greener ..

“In no country are better sportsmen to be found than in the United States of America, nor does any country posses keener buyers or better men of business, yet in no country is so much worthless rubbish of the (mass production) gun-factories offered for sale. The Boers are a race of sportsmen, but it is of no use to offer them rubbish at any price, and the author can hardly believe that the astute American will sacrifice everything to cheapness."
K.

I think there are some misconceptions here, re the importance of "originality" for the American vs British collector.

In the first place, it's far more likely that something like a Purdey got shot a whole lot more than a top of the line Parker, Elsie, you name it. Think driven shooting. And the Brits, especially with their "best" guns, generally took a different approach to gun care that we did on this side of the pond. After a shooting season, the Purdey likely went back to Purdey. If the bores needed a bit of honing or polishing, or the barrels reblacking, they got it. If the wood needed refinishing, it was done. Sort of like taking your car to the dealer for regular maintenance and checkups. American guns, on the other hand, tended to visit the village smith only when something broke. The result is that while the Brits certainly value guns in high condition, there is less of a deduction for guns that are "other than original", because the fact is, most of them are "other than original". But if they're still in original proof and if things like reblacking the barrels and refinishing the wood were well-done--and they typically would have been, especially on "best" guns--such a gun would suffer far less in the eyes of a British collector than a reblued and re-CC Parker or Smith in the eyes of an American collector. And even if a British gun had the chambers lengthened to 2 3/4" from the original 2 1/2", that's not a big deal either--as long as it has the proper proofmarks and passed reproof.

Ted, as for a Fox sitting around somewhere in England for 100 years . . . I don't recall that article, but if it was written very long ago, there'd be a chronology problem--since Foxes didn't appear until 1905.

The proof load thing . . . That got a lot of good publicity for John Olin and his Model 21, but basically all it demonstrated was how much that gun was overbuilt. You're not going to hunt ducks for several seasons shooting blue pills. If a gun can digest several dozen proof loads before it fails, does that somehow make it inferior to one that can digest several hundred? If the one that can digest several dozen weighs, say, a pound or so less than the one that can digest several hundred, then I'm still likely to favor the one that's not as strong, because of the weight and because it's certainly strong enough for anything I want to do with it. And in spite of the legendary strength of the Model 21, it's interesting to note that Winchester kept a stock of Model 21 hinge pins, in gradually larger sizes, that you could slip in when the gun got loose on the original one.

Battle, I wonder about you, and worry about your stock when you make comments like your Purdey comment above. Now, we all like our colonials, but there is a difference ol'man.
The reason we like condition, is that most were treated like crap and finding that pristine needle in a haystack farmer's gun is part of the game.

I have a theory that a lot of guns got loose from lack of cleaning. That is the grease and dust combined to make a lapping compound. I have a Browning Superposed that was purchased new by my Father and given to me several years later. I hunted with it for 20 years. It hasn't had 5000 shells through it but it is loose. They are relatively difficult to disassemble and I knew little about break-open guns and I didn't clean and lube the hinge pin and hook.

Best,

Mike