doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com Diggory digs American guns??? I don't know

Interesting article by Diggory in the March 2009 issue of "Sporting Shooter" in the UK. The article's title is "BORN IN THE USA". In explaining the USA gun collector he says:

"The typical collector in the US looks for a factory original, mint condition example of a gun by the likes of Le Fever (sic), Parker or LC Smith. The fewer made, the more collectable, the more original condition, the more it will cost. Quality hardly comes into it. A basic grade Birmingham trade boxlock surpasses all these in terms of mechanical integrity, design and manufacture. If you want to upset an American show him a high-grade Parker, then show him a Purdey, and watch him blather on about nostalgia and patriotism and grandpa's homestead.

However, not all American Guns are over-priced rubbish, and many American collectors have very impressive collections of best English guns and a surprising number are immensely Knowledgeable, haveing taken pains to eductate themselves about English guns......Bill McPhail is unusual because his collection focuses on real qulity from relatively unknown American makers (William Schaefer, T. Hasdell, E. Thomas Jr., D. Kirkwood, Joseph Tonks and Mortimer & Kirkwood). Some of these guns clearly emanate from Scott in Birmingham, having distinctive tower mark stamped on the action flats or the barrel flats. I suspect very few if any were fully American made.....The quality of guns in Bill's collection is comparable to British guns of the 1870-80......Traveling and learning are wonderful parts of my job and I love discovering things that unravel my prejudices. So now when someone dismisses all American shotguns as agricultural nonentities like the LC Smith, I can point them to a Tonks or a Mortimer & Kirkwood and watch them struggle to find fault with it"

Bless his heart....

I have a reply, but this isn't the MisFire forum!

Just posted same on the LCSCA Forum. Looking forward to a chat if deemed worthy at The Southern

Diggory is well versed in the old wive's tale about bad condition and refinishing affecting American guns more than British guns. He doesn't believe it all because he realizes that low condition and badly refinished British guns sell for much less than better ones. Unfortunately, many gun people have been fed this pablum for so long that they believe all Purdeys, refinished and ground down, or not refinished or ground down sell for the same money. It is not true and Diggory knows it. The Brits like condition and originality just like we do, and they pay for it just like we do. I can buy his Birmingham guns all day long for a very few hundred dollars in ground down condition. Find me a ninety year old mint Birmingham 20 gauge and it will sell for a fortune, just like a ninety year old mint Parker 20 gauge. Diggory's logic has nothing to do with anything except that there are way fewer shotgun collectors in GB than there are in the U.S. If there were as many people in GB interested in shotgun collecting as there are in the U.S., the search for condition in lower grade guns would be on the same level. An educated observer like Diggory should realize that the search for condition, which he disrespects a bit in American collectors (read the first part of his essay) is the right approach in collecting. He certainly leans that way in his DGJ articles about UK auctions.

as they say the truth can be painful.....most englishmen shoot o/u guns like the ubiquitous beretta. americans collect guns like others collect stamps or coins.

What I like is that he's not afraid to express his opinion. Dig would be welcome company in any gathering. He also knows that with-it publishers always look for some edgy stuff from the cognoscenti, something to keep reader juices jangling. As a newby to the fine art of American guns, I never heard of those relatively unknown American makers.

I think there is a fair amount of truth in his statements. I do not see why some field grade guns ranging from Parks to Remingtons (especially the ones)in poor conditions are bringing the price they do today. I see no shortage of them either.

he is one of the good enlishmen.

Dig is great fun. And, be assured he does know guns. I'm pretty sure Dig will be along to debate this with you.