doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com Very nice Beesley?

I've handled the gun on a couple of occasions,..Rocketman is right on the money!

CJ

I don't see this gun as a bought-in gun from Beesley. The production #'s for the year this gun may have been made show 20 guns listed. The next year 14. They may have needed to buy in a gun but I don't see why. Components may have come from Scott.
The #'s on the gun barel do not jive with production #'s for Scott. They're from 16 years earlier.
The legend on the rib misses the date of Beesley occupying that space by 5 years.
I couldn't make out the "From Purdeys" that Beesley engraved on his guns. Is it there?
So what is this gun?

Could be something other than a Scott, but it is a very typical pattern from B'ham, right down to the fern chiseled fences. Mr. Beesley would have made more money buying this gun in and selling it than making it and selling it. I believe he made his Beesley pattern guns in London. Anyone got one of those? Do they have London proofs? Are the proofs on this gun London or B'ham? By the time this gun was made, B'ham makers had figured out how to make this pattern of gun cheaply enough to sell it profitably to the trade, who could resell it more profitably than their own shop's products.

I have no intent to be knocking this gun. But, maker's name aside, it is not a best gun, or even a second best gun. The take-away here is to look past the Brand Value and determine the Original Quality grade of the individual gun. Give the maker's name its Brand Value level due, but don't be blinded by the name.

All the above said, this is still a desirable gun. One would certainly hope so at the $5,500 price I estimated. Had this actually been a Beesley made Beesley pattern gun of OQ1, the estimate would have been $9,000, and had said OQ1 gun been in pristine Current Condition level, BV2-OQ1-CC1 = $30,000.

Nope, I'm not trying to knock anything. I'm trying to show that, above and beyond maker's name's Brand Value, Original Quality grade and Current Condition level have very big influence on how the market values guns.

You know this might be quickly decided if the owner would call Mr.Buller in England,He's got the Beesley order book.
These are London proofs,though that is not definitve proof of where it was made.
By the way,where's the whitworth logo on the barells? They're wheat sheaves or somthing like that.
Even if the gun was made in B'ham,if it was sold by Beesley it is well worth the $5500 if not more.

I agree that it was only refinished to a passable standard because if you look at the pictures closely to many wood to metal gaffs on that Beesley to consider it as original condition gun.

According to Boothroyd, Beesley moved to 2 St James St in 1900. Can't comment on the exact SN, but that certainly fits with the proofmarks, which are without question (because of the MAXIMUM mark) 1896-1904.

Slate, something else to check would be bore diameter/wall thickness. That gun does not show any indication of reproof, which means the bores would have been .729 (or very close) from the maker. If they're .010 greater, that would make them out of proof--although on a British gun that old, one would almost expect some honing/polishing to have taken place. But if they're significantly larger than .729, that might also mean wall thickness is questionable.

Thanks doc, he's my first!
My Beesley is a 1910-15 made gun, and is marked with "Beesley's Patent" on the bottom of the action. It has London proofings.
Prehaps Rocketman could tell us if Hellis guns were brough in from B'ham to be tidied-up eh?

Congratulations Lowell! That's great news. Got some pics?

I thought this Beesley thread would bring you back out! ;-)

Good close ups would be nice....maybe even one with a dead crow.

Looks like a Beesley Best to me. The "fern" chiseled fences, although used on some early Beesley Pat. Purdeys and others, was a Beesley signature for most of his production. The stocks ,however are new to the gun. The wood, comb, checkering, and what I can see of the general shaping are not quite "British". The numbers on the loop are Whitworth tube #s as has been speculated before. Theese #s are on most Whitworth barrels weather chopper lump, or dovetailed from about 1880. The "sheaf of wheat" logo does not appear on many whitworth bbls. The tube #s will be on all except for very early ones. It's too bad the work was not done a bit better, but it looks as if this gun could be saved with a good re-do of the stock etc. as long as the bbls are good.
All the best, Mal