doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com O/U Guys....Got a Question

Same old L.Brown. Never bother to read an entire post if that will interfere with a reply that has no bearing to the topic. You might want to obsess about something that you actually understand. And I am absolutely certain that Gough Thomas would be the FINAL authority in gun fit since his international shooting fame has no equal. I know that my meager experience is of no consequence but the "authorities" (i.e. successful shooters) that I have spoken with seem to agree on the drop/cast/pitch/lop thing pretty consistently.
And I don't mind saying it again - gauge has as much to do with drop as my shoe size. Just like cowboy boots will make your gun shoot higher. Well, maybe at the urinal.

And I would end with JMO again too, but obviously there are facts that need no substantiation by my opinion or experience; the drop/cast/pitch/lop interactions being the most obvious here.

over and out

WtS

PS - Yardley does the writing/shooting thing for a living. Buy his books. He speaks the truth. And go to shotgunreport.com for a DIY gunfitting tutorial that works. AND just BTW for L.Brown, the shotgunreport guys are killer international and sporting shooters. But WTF do they know anyway??

Hmmm . . . I believe Mr. Batha also does the writing/shooting thing for a living.

One does have to be careful and always chew one's Redman in the offside cheek so as not to change the cast.

As for the LOP thing, Wonk . . . assuming that I hunt (that's shooting live, wild birds) with a shotgun just a bit more than you--and I believe that's a very safe assumption--I'll certainly put my credentials up against yours when it comes to LOP issues for a FIELD gun. And I can quote you at least half a dozen other serious HUNTERS who write who will also tell you that incorrect LOP--especially if it's in the too long direction--will result in all kinds of gun mount issues when hunting. Obviously, those aren't the same issues one faces when one already has the gun mounted before yelling "pull".

I was wondering the same thing. I know you said you like them, but, but, but. Is there any other options???

tim

Kids, see what happens when you take one too many pulls off the lit Churchill clamped in your teeth when you are next to the acetone tank?
Let this be a lesson to you pukes.....
Best,
Ted

Interesting comment on the Redman "cud" Mr. Brown. I'm not a clays shooter at all, but do own a 1948 era M12 Pigeon Grade Trap-factory dims for that era. The former owner was a AA class 16 yard shooter-but was also a 2 pack of Camels/day smoker-. In an effort to quit that deadly habit, he went to chewing Red Man. His trap scores went "into the dumper" until he learned to shift his cud to the left side cheek. The "wad" of Red Man raised his right cheek off the comb of that M12-and he was shooting over his birds- mainly the straight away flying targets.

I'm a retired power plant/pipeline welder- most of my buddies "on the job" smoked, I didn't. Old Tex saved the cigar stubs from his "R.G. Dungs" and re-lit the stubs, so he could smoke while his hood was down and he was burning a stick of LH-70 vertical up- There was as much smoke coming out of the back of his Huntsman hood as from the arc- Tex told a "rookie" once, upon his first helping of Mail Pouch- "Take a big load there sonny, don't skimp- that will make the pukin' worth your while"..

Well, I'm gonna give up on trying to lure you into actually reading my initial post and copping to the fact that I voted for short LOP's. As for wild birds - I think I'm safe in putting flyers up against them most any time.
And who GAF if the gun is mounted or not. I know lots of guys that mount the gun before they pull the trigger. But if you say a short stock makes low gun shooting easier you are certainly free to do it that way.

WtS

Wonk, I think maybe you need more help with your English than you do your gun mount, if you think the above somehow shows a preference for short stocks over long ones. 17" is long enough that I won't bash my nose, but I'd never be able to shoot a 17" stock starting low gun. If you'd said "just long enough that you don't bash your nose", that will work pretty well shooting low gun. "But short stocks look funny." I think you and John Kerry have a lot in common: You both have a tendency of being for something before you're against it.

And to straighten out your most recent muddying of my opinion on stock length . . I certainly believe that a stock that's too long can be a definite hindrance to shooting low gun. And with the possible exception of Doc Holliday at the OK Corral, most folks I know don't pull the trigger until the gun's mounted. The problem is getting it mounted with the least amount of difficulty and having it end up so it shoots where you look. If you're shooting premounted, you have more of an opportunity to scrunch yourself around so that a too long LOP can be made to work.

Talked to Glenn Baker who did my fitting a few years back. He feels that, since it is a straight grip with double triggers, LOP should be made same as for a similar SxS. He felt that a single trigger would necessitate going about 1/2" shorter on LOP.

He also gave me another idea on the finishing of the butt. Like him , I hated the prominent Phillip's head screws that fasten the nice matching wood butt plate onto the stock. Liked the wood but the screws have to go. He recommended new flat headed, engraved and blued screws. Think I'll go with that.

Actually, I thot that this was pretty clear - "Now, pragmatically, the best fit is long enough that you don't bash your nose. Why? Obviously that will accomdate the easiest gun mount and the greatest range of clothing. And more importantly it will bring the center of mass close to the rotational axis of your body and you will be able to turn faster."

But then that must depend on reading skills that all may not have.

WtS

We wear shoes much more than we shoot, thus, for notions about comfortable fit let's look at how we find our footwear.

The deluxe option consists of having the foot fitted and the shoe built to spec. I've tried it and while much effort is put into building the stature of the expert salesman, I am not sure the confidence necessarily follows with wearing the shoe. Believing a salesman is a poor placebo for true fit. Simply put, custom made stuff is not necessarily always best sized either because of bad luck or simply a bad fit. Now what to do with the custom numbers? And what about style selection?

Off the shelf shoes come easily. Find roughly the proper fit and hope for luck in falling into the perfect size. Matches made in heaven such as these happen often enough if you only search. Variety is endless and buying shoes is fun.

How many shoes do we have? Which one style do we secretly love? Which one always seems to fit the most comfortably?

I know for myself that if presented with a shoe I do not like even if it is the most scientifically-ergonomically-optimally-physically designed fit, I will scream like a kid that the pair actually hurt my feet. And they will. Truly.

The point I am trying to make is that a perfect fit comes in many mysterious ways - and in dimensions even a top expert wouldn't know to measure. Try your luck and if you have accumulated a collection of shoes over the years you'll know exactly what I mean when we speak of our favorite boots and thus the most comfortable pair. It's much more than an expert craft, it is much more than just plain old luck, it is also the memory of shared adventures and also the idolization of others who wear the same gear, meanwhile, it is our inner most intuition that we should all learn to follow for the happiness of our soul.

The best psychological fit trumps every other number. For guns it is the same. You love them with the eyes and with the mind and you love the fit. To me, within reason of course, dancing around crafted numbers is the same whining tantrum we all used to put on for our mother when it was time for her to buy shoes for us as kids. Don't you all remember? the Sunday shoes -she- liked would hurt our feet... and the sizes were all wrong - no matter what. Tears were our added attempt at proving it. Meanwhile, the cowboy boots we really wanted were the perfect fit... oh yeah... and it did not matter that the store did not have them in our size either... and I suspect my mother was secretly winking at the shoe lady.

We cloak our love for such items in the mystery of secret numerology, that way, we have an emotional escape for when we are stabbed in the heart if things don't come our way or when faced with scorn and mockery. But truly, the numbers don't matter much, plainly, tradition makes for an authentic fit. Little kids become men and part of growing up is learning to be comfortable in the love of guns.



(I buy my own boots nowadays)