doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com Belgian Janssen Sons ---opinions please PICS

Hello All - Just signed up and (of course) have a question about a side by side...Made in Belgium pre-1930?, I hope its not rude to post a few photos.

My experience has been with modern shotguns 1930s- 90s... I have little understanding of European made shotguns from the turn of the century era.

Looking through your site I have found some great info in previous posts and links to Belgian sites identifying marks.
The barrel markings were nearly all found through links recommended here.

[img]http://www.flickr.com/photos/7847003@N07/3143764895/[/img]


This 12 Ga Janssen and Sons Co was bought last summer at auction in Iowa by a friend. There were 5 other guns bought that day from a large collection. Some of the others were LeFever 12 Ga, LC Smith 12 Ga, A Fox 10 Ga, and I am not sure the brand of the others. The prices were right...

The Janssen and Sons Co was the only gun that the buyer wanted...
I got the Field Grade Lefever and my Dad got the LC Smith. Both Great serviceable guns that we will be hunting with for many years.

The question is - what does the buyer have exactly... he wants to use this gun in the field with modern loads (NO not Steel)and I am concerned about its ability to withstand a seasons use.
(Yes at some point we will have it taken to a good gun smith) In the mean time can anyone tell a bit more about it from photos.

Is the gun valuable to the point that using it might ruin a desirable piece of history?

The gun is tight - nothing shakes or gives the impression of being mis-aligned. The left Hammer was repaired at some date and is a bit less tight when cocking compared to the right which is like it was when new...great action on both - no catching or play.

The metal on the receiver is fairly coarse (cast?)and is bright for its age. What is this metal? Is it Nickle or Silver?

The look of this metal makes it seem more "hand made" than machined. A few of the screws are hand cut of the same metal although the pins are a hardened steel...

The gun was bought for around $200...

Reciever, Barrel, and Forearm are stamped 66 (or 99)
The Barrel states BELGIAN FINE DAMASCUS

The picture of the Barrel shows the marking well...
Other stampings on the Barrel are a .17EL
and a PJ

Both Barrels have 18.1 stamped in them....

Any opionions would be appreciated - Here are the photos...

[img]http://www.flickr.com/photos/7847003@N07/3143783091/[/img]

[img]http://www.flickr.com/photos/7847003@N07/3143792531/[/img]

[img]http://www.flickr.com/photos/7847003@N07/3144611550/[/img]

[img]http://www.flickr.com/photos/7847003@N07/3143779527/[/img]

[img]http://www.flickr.com/photos/7847003@N07/3144604358/[/img]

[img]http://www.flickr.com/photos/7847003@N07/3143768761/[/img]

[img]http://www.flickr.com/photos/7847003@N07/3144596870/[/img]

Welcome. Hope you stop by on a regular basis.

The gun does not have any Nitro proof marks that I can see. It is not safe with today's normal ammunition and requires low pressure loads.
It "appears" to be in good condition, but is not very collectible.

For more on Janssen Sons & Company:
http://www.littlegun.be/arme%20belge/art...%20cie%20gb.htm

http://damascus-barrels.com/Belgian_All_Proofmarks.html

Pete

I thought the almost total lack of barrel flats was interesting...Geo

Thanks for the replies so far.

To me examining the gun up close looking at the "tooling" marks this seem like sand cast metal that was then hand tooled...

The workmanship is good but does not look precise like the machining on an American or English gun.

Geo - what do you mean by the "total lack of Barrel flats?"

I could not get the camera to work well enough to show the Barrel Damascus while standing around in the guys kitchen last night.

There is a rib runs down the center although its not very deep - the site at the end of the Barrel looks to be an ivory circle with a round brass bead pinning it through...Again Bad light could not capture the detail...

Billy: PeteM was right on. After you have the gun inspected & OK'd by a competant gunsmith the gun should be fired only with low pressure shells. BTW Fox never made a 10 gauge gun to my knowledge. Welcome & Best Regards.......George

Billy: PeteM was right on. After you have the gun inspected & OK'd by a competant gunsmith the gun should be fired only with low pressure shells. BTW Fox never made a 10 gauge gun to my knowledge. Welcome & Best Regards.......George

Billy: PeteM was right on. After you have the gun inspected & OK'd by a competant gunsmith the gun should be fired only with low pressure shells. BTW Fox never made a 10 gauge gun to my knowledge. Welcome & Best Regards.......George

Your first picture shows the proof markings on the bottoms of the barrels and only a slim section of the flat area usually found at the bottom of the barrel breeches. That flat area is where you would usually find the markings, which on the gun you picture are on the barrels...Geo

Ditto all the above.
This maker was all over the place in quality. From fine guns to those made to a low price point for export.
We took the locks off a beautifully engraved one and the insides were rather rough.
I suppose that I have seen a half dozen and never bought any.
I think that you and your father got the cream in that bottle.
Best,
John

Thanks Geo - to be honest I have not looked at enough of these to spot things like that... But there again it says to me that the amount of metal at the FLAT - which is typically "machined" and hardened steel where it is mated to forged barrel isn't up to snuff for modern powder...and may not be real safe at all...

These are all clues and reasons to give the owner not to run any modern loads through it...

Someone said all over the map in terms of quality from this manufacturer...

The body of the reciever looks like cast Nickel or some Silver alloy... It would be really really beautiful if it had been buffed out and polished when it was made... What type of metal would this be? Anyone with an idea?