doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com OT - steel shot in Heavy Duck Model 12?

I have personally seen one total,Model 12, "Heavy Duck" barrel ruined by steel shot. This was years ago before it was "common knowledge" that full choked guns were not well suited for steel shot. You do what you want. If you end up with a barrel with issues you have been warned. I have seen over a dozen guns total that steel shot has ruined over the years and all but one owner was not warned before the problem. The one who had been warned ruined a 870 barrel so it was not the end of the World. He just cut it off and used it for quail. How does a Heavy Duck quail gun sound?

I'll make you one hell of a deal Joe - I swap you a Heavy Duck front-end with a Poly-Choke for your unaltered one and pay you a few hundred dollers to boot; and you can shoot steel in it till doomsday.

Nooooo, the English think the gun must be "modern" variety with minimum proof of 120MPa.

Joe, Worth Matthewson wrote in BIG DECEMBER CANVASBACKS that his waterfowl gun of choice for many years was a L.C. Smith, in which he shot nothing but steel loads. He was(is?) one of the most prolific duck hunters along the Pacific Northwest coast, so it was used a lot. He wrote that it was only after many years' use when he took it to a gunsmith and had the chokes measured that he found he had been shooting the steel through two extra full tubes. According to him, no damage to barrels or chokes.

But then, maybe Elsie barrels are tougher than Mod. 12's.

I want repliers to know barrel is packjed up- ship today to get thechoke opened to 20 points. I will let all know how it worked out 1 year from now. Thank you to those that understand and I hope those that dont' learned every one don't think alike. I wish ya'll soft times in the year ahead.Joe

Old Joe,
If there is a corner in hell for guys who altered an old gun, you will have plenty of company there. Me, for one. When I posted, I assumed you had a super nice heavy duck, but, $1000 is likely a pretty well used gun, in that model. It ain't the Mona Lisa, go ahead and do as you will with it. Like I said, wads have come a hell of a long way since the early days, too.
I opened a first year 20 gauge model 12 from beyond extra full to right in between IC and MOD, and never looked back. I might add the gun was in need of wood, and so rusty you had to wash your hands after handling it, when I got it. With a black Old English pad, plain, but, nice replacement wood, a jeweled bolt, lefty big button safety, and a re-blue, it looks and performs just fine.
Good luck.
Best,
Ted

One thousand should buy one in very good original conditon. Last year I almost bought all original piece with about 30% blue remaining for $499. It was day before Christmas and I got tired of wainting for approval so I nixed the deal. These guns are not that expensive as one must remember most modern fowlers want Benelli or Beretta 3.5" super-autos with extended tubes. Not many takers out there for "9lb" pump with fixed full barrel.

I have a friend who shot cases of steel through a Model 12 Heavy Duck back in the 80's without any trouble and it never had the choke opened. Was he just lucky? Probably, but that's a fact, and a true story.

I've seen a lot of duck guns in my travels and only ever seen one that had been really wrecked with steel. It was an ancient Stevens Arms and Tool Company 12 gauge pump, slight bulge behind the choke, and the bore had some pretty deep lines in it from the shot cutting into it.

A friend bulged a field grade LC Smith just ahead of the chamber with a steel shell back in the late 80's though I really don't know as you could fault the steel on that one. When he pulled out the empty, the case wall was partially gone so there was something up with that shell besides it just being steel shot. It kicked him so hard that his lip was bloody.

Those are my personal observations and experiences with old guns and steel shot, I'm not making any judgements or saying what's right / wrong.


Destry

Im not a big waterfowl hunter but I've often wondered if allot of the early problems with steel shot ruining barrels was caused by the steel shot rusting....possibly into a slug of sorts.

Caused by improper handling of the ammo...such as rolling around the bottom of boats and blinds only to be shot the next year.

I shot a Fox Sterlingworth with .040 chokes with steel for quite a while with no damage. A friend still shoots his A Grade Fox with steel, no damage after years of use. Stan's illustration of Worth Mathewson's L.C.Smith mirrors my own experience. Some people just feel they must spend money on expensive shells and expensive choke work, are not happy unless they write the checks. I have been shooting my AYA 10 magnum with steel #2, #4, and BB for years without damage. It has about .043 of choke in both barrels. I also sold a wonderful prewar Model 12 Heavy Duck for $500. A less than near mint Heavy Duck is just a hunting gun, not a collector piece. The AYA and the Model 12 are in the same category: if I damage the chokes with steel, I have the barrels shortened and install Briley chokes. If I don't damage them, which I don't intend to do, I haven't spent a dime on unnessesary barrel work. With modern steel ammunition, there is no need to relieve chokes in a gun with reasonably thick barrel walls. What most posters (except my friendsDon and Markethunter) on this thread do not know is that the barrel on a Heavy Duck is very much thicker than the barrel on a standard Model 12 and should never show any effects from steel shot, whether the choke is relieved or not. By the way, Joe, last summer I found three Federal shells long lost on an island on the Inland Waterway off Bogue Sound in NC. Regardless of my wife's protests, I brought them home. She thinks my ammunition collection is a bit overwhelming already (as in "Enough Already"). I will open them up and see what they look like inside if they are in fact steel shot shells.