doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com Crappy Ithaca NID - Let the flames begin !

Price played little to no reason, slim-the models 97 and model 12 were never a cheap guns, and many imported doubles, especially from Belgium, were actually cheaper.

The only non-sense would be looking for a gunsmith to re-lay a double rib anywhere in the world that the English politely called "colonial areas" remembering they steered customers into boxlocks toward that use.

Serious shotgunners from the era had a bit of a "lean" look about them, jOe. What do you know about that? Subsistance living doesn't appear to be an area of expertise for you, looking at those love handles you sport. Jelly donut franchises were uncommon.

By 1915, just three years into the model 12s 51 year first life, about 110,000 of them had been built. That number looks a lot like many American double gun manufacturers total production. A few English companys haven't built that many guns yet.

Pumps, even duck boat pumps, really don't jam that often. Autoloaders are different. 16 gauge model 12s are notorious for wanting the correct length ammunition, but, when one of my pumps acts up, it's dirty, or, more likely, operator error.
Best,
Ted

Local shop has something stout that our Young Viking could use. It's Winchester 23 XTR 12ga with Winchokes and original box (like that makes a difference). The price at nearly $1500 is not that unreasonable (it's probably worth about $1200) and the 25" or 26" barrels are hardly a hinderance for gun in it's weight class. Oh, a double is not that outdated one must remember that two extra cartridges can be held between fingers provided those fingers are long enough!
Why would anyone want to own something that handles like a typical O/U w/o it's inherent advantages is beyond me.

I believe the 21 would jam signifigantly less than the Model 12 - even more difference if shooting hand loads.

Best,

Mike

Lets not forget that if you get one of the early ones with double triggers and boat oar style stock you actually have two single-shot guns rolled into one. Very reliable system indeed.

I must just be lucky. Only double I've ever shot something loose on was a 12 bore Flues that as a young man (many years ago) I pounded with pigeon loads of 1-1/4 oz. and Alcan #5 powder. The rib extension loosened in its place between the breeches. Other than that I have an 80 year old Nitro Special 20 bore that's sound as a bell. I treat it gently for sure with more concern for the old wood than any mechanical areas. Have a few other Nitros (two 16's) made in 1924 and 1934. The toughest guns I've ever had were the old Stevens (Chickopee Falls guns) 5100 and a Fox Model B from Utica Savage's first year of production. It even has a serial #! Maybe not the prettiest guns but sure damned good tough old girls. Chuck from Torrence had a wonderful tutorial on relaying ribs. He is some great guy! One of my favorite posters along with Ted. Chopperlump

Does one reckon the fact those pumps/autos held either 5 or 6 shells instead of two had more to do with selling them than either price or solder joints??? This was a day of large to No bag limits & everybody thought if their gun just had one more shell in it they could have killed more game. It was pure & simple "Greed" the once bbl repeater held more shells.

Ted...I just love it when you grace us with your words of wizz'dom then resort to belittling people when you look stew'ped.


go have a Darne Jello dOnut ol'Chap.....I hear they are good for the brain.

Oh, right. All the folks competing in international trap events, ever since 1908, with double guns mostly, burning thousands of loads a year - they must have had tons of problems with ribs coming loose, must have had to resolder ribs every season or so... strange I haven't heard anythiong about this problem, though, but what do I know...

I know one 'ole NID that gets shot on a very regular basis and has yet to hic-hup. Mine!!

Amarillo - I dunno. I'm having a hard time thinking of a gun that has thinner ribs than a Model 21 - I've got a five pounds, three ounce, 28" bbl 20 gauge that has more rib than a 12 gauge 21. Interesting topic in itself. I'll have to go up and down the street and ask to turn the neighbors' 21s upside down and take a look.