doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com Crappy Ithaca NID - Let the flames begin !

Get the kid a "Self Opener" also known as a "Hard Closer", and I guarantee he won't be slamming it shut!

I shot a round of Sporting Clays a few weeks ago with my Gorosable, and I got a little embarrassed by the effort I was having to exert to get the breech closed.

binko

Grant, I was thinking that if your son shoots straights at registered trap targets with an old double, you or he, depending on who's paying the freight, should consider a single-barrel trapgun. Those BT-99s can be had for $700+ and there must be one out there that's bent for his cheek/eye relationship or can be. In any case, now that's he's using one of the stable of Supers, tell him that a slow, deliberate closing of the gun after report from previous shooter changes the pull-bang rhythm and can distract the following shooter. If Dad just happens to be next, the competitive juices will make him see the value. Also think one of the m12s is a great idea.

jack

I would also say the exact opposite of the original post, after some knucklehead got a hold of it and damn near destroyed it trying to make it look better, look how long and how much abuse the NID took before it let go. A lesser gun would have let go along time ago probably blowing the guys hand off!!!
Get your priorities straight will ya!!

Thanks for all the replies......The flames are welcome too; it's cold up here in Minnesota.
I'll try to answer some of the posts. The gun has never been messed with. Has about 75% original finish; never been reblued, hot or cold. Was a closet queen for at least forty years, according to the old aunt who sold it to my gun dealer. Her husband bought it new to hunt with and hunted with it. He had quite a few guns, and treated them well. My shooting buddy has a grade 3 NID with lots of rare non grade 3 options. The toplevers are virtually identical in size, and configuration. His top lever is just fine. Mine is dead soft....And I mean real soft. When it works it's way to the left after a round of trap, it is real easy to bend back. Nobody's slamming the gun shut any harder than we close the Supers, or the Citoris or the Franchis or any of the other trap guns we see at the local range. We aren't bending the toplevers on the Brownings.....We aren't separating the barrels on the old Flues we sometimes shoot, or the Lefever Nitro Special one of us shoots from time to time. The guy with the $16,000 dollar Kolar that lines up with us, shuts his more firmly than we do. That was the point of my post.... NIDs are just another old shotgun. Not particularly strong. Not too durable. Not crafted too well. But to hear some of the hardcore NID aficionados talk; they are bulletproof!
Flash!!!!! I talked to Gunter Pfrommer today. He will repair the NID without demanding my first born as recompence. Says he has worked on more than a few where some of the parts, (including the top lever,) somehow missed the heatreating process. Going to box the old girl up, and send her out first thing Monday morning..... I'll post again with the results of the repairs, the cost, and etc.
'Spose when we get the old gun back, we'll limit it's useage to the occasional pheasant, or a few informal hand-thrown clays and such........ My 26 year-old is now shooting one of Dad's Broadway Traps....... He ain't broke 25 straight with it yet. Again, thanks for all the replies.... Grant.

Grant,
I'm of similar belief as you. They are old guns. They are not particularly well made, in today's standards, especially a field model. The graded guns got more attention as the grades went up, I'm guessing from the quality of fit and finish.

But, if a guy wants to shoot high volume targets today, a modern target gun is what I'd use. Not to say I haven't taken a Fox out for a few weeks in a row at the range, just that I haven't done it year in and year out. However, I am suspicious we have some here that have done exactly that. Possibly, guys like Mike Campbell and others shoot these old guns a lot. I'd be educational to hear their perspective.

Kirk Merrington was interviewed in one magazine or another. I understood that he beilieves the rib coming loose on a double is a matter of normal wear. Not a matter of if, just when.

I would expect a gun built to shoot trap to be built stronger than one intended for upland game. I would also expect the trap gun to be much heavier as a result.

Best,

Mike

Oh, ahhh Grant, could you just go ahead and forget about everything I said on this post???

The doubles got replaced by repeaters back in the day for good reason. The "Best" gun concept went right straight to hell when used in period North American market hunting, sealing, or coastal subsistance waterfowling use, especially if there was a repeater (usually, a model 97 or a model 12) around to compare it to.

Do I love my old doubles? Yup. If I was trying to feed a family, circa 1915, near coastal Alaska, knowing what I know today, would I attempt that by owning any double shotgun and being limited to only that gun? Nope.
You can argue different, but, when the use might mean survival, or not, a double is an inferior tool compared to a repeater. Serious shotgunners figured that out around 1900, and by 1915, Winchester had sold so many model 1912s they wouldn't look back, seriously, at a double, ever again.

Solder, as an adhesive between pieces of steel, isn't forever. A good double has more particular maintenance requirements as well. Understand and accept this when you use use them.

Like I said Grant, get it fixed (it only hurts once) and relegate the gun to retirement duty on bluebird days. Most gunsafes have room for more than one gun.

Best,
Ted

Ted as a general statement pumps and automatics jam more often than Side by Sides and Over & Unders. If you have plenty of game no big deal. I have two pumps (Model 12s in sixteen) and two autos (1100/20 and A5/16) and I like them very much. I don't like it when they jam.

I would also expect the Winchester 21 barrels to go awhile before the rib has to be relayed. The 21 would make a fine subsistence gun if it could be afforded I think. I think since break open guns are less fussy about ammo they are easier to reload for also.

I acknowledge the 21 cost much much more to build than the Model 12.

Best,

Mike