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Joined: Sep 2007
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I thought I read that the shooter was 26 years old? Hardly a "kid"...

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Possibility the barrels had seen the hot salt blueing bath in the past and the solder is weakened and slowly eaten away. They will come apart in time from that and the lack of solder in the joint sounds alot like that may have been the cause. You are correct in that ringing the barrels in a worthless endeavor IMHO. I've always felt it was a nice piece of showmanship for the buying crowd but in reality it proves nothing and discloses very little. A really loose rib that would be seen upon visual inspection can sometimes be 'heard',, but don't ever expect the ceremonial knuckle wrapping it to reveal any and all flaws in a soldering job on a double.
That top lever doesn't sound right. Either it's been thinned down at some point (refinish, etc) or it's been broken and repaired midway with a poor weld or silver solder joint and that's where it's bending easily. I've seen more than a few that can be flexed downward onto the top tang so that they scratch the surface of the tang when moved, but never bent and then bent back into position like you're describing unless they were broken to begin with.

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If our young gent is fool enough to slam the gun shut enough to bend the lever maybe he has mishandled the gun enough to knock the rib loose. Sounds like the boy is a bit of a hack.

I agree on the ringing issue. That will give you a general feel of the barrels but does not give 100% results. I bought a very nice London made gun a long time ago and when I went to ring the barrels, it sounded awful. I was so convinced that they were loose that I called the dealer up and told him that I would have to send them to my smith. He said he would set $500 aside for the project. My smith called me (after my gun got lost in shipping) and told me that the barrels were FINE. I could not take the $500 because I'm a man of my word. But from that point on the barrel ringing is an indicator not the absolute answer.

Tim

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Ted, the NID was pretty much a complete redesign, succeeding the Flues. Dating from about 1925. The Model 12 was designed . . . well, it had to be designed prior to 1912, which makes it older. Unless you mean that a side by side, generically speaking, is an older design than a pump.

It does go without saying that the rib won't come unsoldered on a Model 12, however, if it has no rib. I'm not a pumpgun guy, so I don't know how they attached ribs on those guns, although I know some ribs on pumps (and autos) do come loose.

I've owned a number of NID's, and I never worried much about hunting them in nasty weather. (Nearly all of mine were Field Grades.) It was a strong enough design that John Olin turned to Ithaca to build guns for his 3 1/2" magnum--rather than using his own Model 21, which is famed for its strength.

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Much of the Mod 12 design was simply carryover from JM Brownings 1897 model.


Miller/TN
I Didn't Say Everything I Said, Yogi Berra
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Sorry, boys, I don't see any carryover from the '97 to the Model 12 other than the chamber ring adjustment. The lockups are very different with the '97's being superior. A '97 will outlast any Model 12 in real endurance shooting in MHO.

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I figure if ya'll been shooting trap with it for two years and just now cleaning it you reap what you sow. Also need a better range master to make sure guns comming to the line are safe.If the barrels are comming apart and temper gone from some of the steel maybe the gun has been in a fire and then hot blued and used wood put on.

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My point was pretty much that 80 year old solder is 80 year old solder, Larry. If a soldered rib comes loose on a pump, you can just chisel the thing completely off and keep hunting-it isn't structural, like it is on a NID, or any other double. The first pump gun ribs, ala' the Remington 17 and 31 were integral with the barrel. There was no solder to fail.

The Achilles heel on a double is always the barrels. They are the most beautiful aspect, and weakest element of a double gun. It is extremely old school repeating technology, that the pump, and, later, the autoloader eclipsed.

The NID barrels are a complete rework of what? The barrels were still tinned and held to the rib with the same mix of lead and tin as had been practiced since the middle 1800s.
John Olin was having a hell of a time figuring out how to get the chromoly steel his model 21 used wetted with solder in use at the time, and didn't need any more bad publicity then he already had with model 21 lugs coming loose to screw with a magnum model 21 at the time. He knew he had a problem.

A lot of people today realize he had a problem, too.

If nobody bothers to teach you otherwise, it is OK to be 26 and think you have to slam a double to shut it. I've seen much older examples doing the same. Most folks are instructable, either by teaching, or a spendy repair bill.
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Ted

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Maybe the guy was slamming the NID shut while holding the top-lever over and that's what bent it. Bet it hurt his thumb though...Geo

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Barrels were reblued by a knucklehead destroying the solder, that's all, I would like to see someone or anyone on this planet that has a thumb strong enough to bend the top lever on my NID except with a BFH you ain't going to do it!! If it happened the way he said it happened then some knucklehead screwed with it too.

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